Tribunal Case & Solicitor Fees ***HELP***

charmed-imsure

I don't know where else to post this or ask for assistance but a long story short:
I'm taking my ex employer to a tribunal for sex discrimination and my case is two weeks from today. I initially approached a solicitor and asked them to write a very strong letter to the company that sacked me because for 3 months I got nowhere in my comms with them. The solicitor disagreed with my request and assured me the best way to go was straight to tribunal so as she was a legal know it all I went with her suggestion. I clearly pointed out that I'm no longer working so don't have an income and I was left under the impression that any legal fees would be payable once the case is finished with. That solicitor has since left the company, I was never informed she left and her secretary has been dealing with my case. All documents have now been exchanged yesterday and despite the respondent requesting an extension, the tribunal have denied it and so it goes ahead as planned in 2 weeks. My solicitor's account department have sent me a bill for £580 (which for the amount of work thats been done is pretty good) and only gave me 7 days to pay it in full and I can't do it. They said if I don't pay in full by next wednesday they will advise the tribunal they are no longer acting for me and I'll not have enough time to find another solicitor (unless anyone has any suggestions on this?). Apparently a case won't be heard unless you have representation. I can pay it in full but not until 20th February and they will not accept this at all. This case has been looming over me for 8 months now so it would be silly to drop it having come so far and the case is really strong against them. I don't know what to do or where to turn and for such a small amount of money it seems ridiculous, there are people on here in far worse situations but I don't know how to lay my hands on such a small amount in such a short space of time. Can't increase my overdraft any more and I don't want to apply for a loan with my bank. I'm not working as since I was dismissed, I have found it near on impossible to get back into work, mainly as I was on a very high salary and now everyone I apply to are frightened off by that so I'm in a catch 22. Does anyone know anywhere that can do a quick cash £500 loan that will also let me pay it off early or does anyone know how to go about getting a new solicitor at such short notice who can take me through this tribunal? Money isn't normally an issue for me but this timescale has left me in a critical situation for now. Any advice? And no, dropping the case just can't be a solution...

olly300

Use a credit card to pay the solicitor.

asea

firstly - did you sign a contract with the lawyer?

if you told her about your financial situation it sounds like professional negligence.. try speaking to another solicitor in the company & explaining what this other solicitor has said & done.. the solicitors will have professional indemnity insurance for situations like this..

also go to your CAB.. they may be able to direct you to a local legal centre which does pro-rata work for people that can't afford it.

good luck,.. it's tough but you have gotten this far so you must be strong

have you spoken to ACAS at all? they are very good at giving impartial employment law advice (for free!)

i went through a tribunal myself last year.. if you have any questions please ask!

charmed-imsure

Thanks so much for that asea (credit card not an option olly300 as I don't have one!). After great discussion with my other half we've decided to defer the rent for 2 weeks. It's not going to cause an issue so we're taking that route. I have to be honest I am bricking myself about the tribunal. ACAS are involved but only to try to resolve this out of court but the respondent still has up until a minute before it starts to make an offer. My solicitor hasn't really given me very much of an idea of how the tribunal will work, who can be present, how witnesses are called (I have one witness the other party I think has none) and how it operates. I don't know what to expect and I'm quite frightened. Really hoping for an out of court settlement. ACAS initially said to me I had a strong case for sex discrimination so I took advice from them and started to challenge my dismissal. 3 months later I phoned this solicitor and they have a fabulous employment law reputation, the respondent is using a general everyday solicitor that mainly deals in drawing up contracts for trading! I've loads of questions but don't know where to start. I haven't had a preliminary hearing so I believe that means the case is strong enough for the panel to just go straight ahead with it. I know the case is strong and quite honestly it's not about the money, it's more about naming and shaming this Company, they treat all their staff so badly. 4 managers in 6 months have walked out!

asea

Of course you are scared that is only normal! The judges know that people will be really nervous. Also, most cases are won and lost in the preparation so it's really positive that you know all the material inside out and sideways. It helps to highlight all the bits you might want to bring up because it just gives you something to refer to and helps with the nerves.

Basically when you get there you register with the clerk & go & wait in the claimant's waiting room & then when they call the case you go into the main room. You don't see (or you are not supposed to) any of the respondents until you go in.

There are 3 'judges', one from a legal background, one from an employer's background & one from an employee background. Sometimes they ask questions in addition to any lawyer's questions.

You have to swear to tell the truth like you would do in court & then you will have to be questioned after the case is presented.

It's not like on the TV when barristers lay into you & so on.. It was all alot more civilised than I thought it would be

I had 2 preliminary hearings & then they settled with me AFTER the tribunal started (they had had 2 days to

Well done for standing firm with your principles.. Let me know if you have any questions (can't get on here all that much but I will try & check!) & you can always pm me, I'll try & help as much as I can! I asked so many people so many questions before my tribunal & would like to think that I can do the same for someone else!

Good Luck!!

charmed-imsure

Thanks, all documents have been exchanged now. I've read the witness statements and I'm raring to go on this. There are 3 witnesses on the respondents side all of who's statements do not marry up and clash quite badly. I have myself and 1 other on my side and our statements marry well. Lets make that 5 managers in 6 months now that've walked out, my partner was a manager and he handed in his notice 3 weeks ago and ended up walking out yesterday. He's also looking to take them to a tribunal, they're being taken to another one by an area manager for breach of contract and the week after my case, the company are going to court over non-payment of bills!

I've had no preliminary hearings, it's just going straight to tribunal now. My solicitor is one of the best in this field in the UK but terribly expensive. He wants to be there but he'll be charging £2000 per day (it's being held over 2 days) and as he knows I'm not working he's offered a nice alternative. I now have a crown court barrister!!! He's been poached for me at a nice £800 for both days. I still don't know where I'm going to get the money from but £800 for both days is fine by me.
My Sols secretary has been wonderful, she's explained everything to me yesterday and really put my mind at ease, she also asked for the day off to come and sit in with me as she knows how nervous I am about it all. I feel so much more confident now though since reading the witness statements. When it's all over I'm going to upload them onto my web site so anyone can view them and see what type of company they are!
May I ask what your tribunal was for?

loopylil

Have you checked to see whether you are covered in your house insurance policy for Free legal assistance? In most cases this can only be of any help when you get to the tribunal stage of any dispute with your employer. Hope this helps. I am going through a similar thing at the moment but haven't got to tribunal stage.

Elaine_Wilson

Hi charmed-imsure,

I can't offer any advice but I can wish you well. From what you have put in your posts you deserve to win.

I'll look forward to reading the outcome. Have a virtual hug to help you through the day.

charmed-imsure

Loopylil, I am covered on my household insurance :-) but because the case already started and I appointed a solicitor, they'll probably not take it on :-( I do have claim forms but I think it was too late. I was told ages ago about checking household insurance because most people aren't aware that 'legal expenses' actually mean any form of legal expense, it's normally only written in the smallest of small print, insurance companies don't really like you using it so tend to keep it quiet!

The Tribunal is now over and it did go over two days and my god what a long two days that was. It was nice to watch an Area Manager and 2 Directors squirm and physically be shaking when they took the stand. The decision has been reserved now until 26th March so I've got a long time to wait until I know if I'll win. The judges and the respondents solicitor all agreed that if it was unfair dismissal I would've won hands down within the first morning but unfortunately I wasn't employed with them long enough to go down the route of unfair dismissal.

It has now been clearly brought to the Tribunals attention that the Company employ a grand total of exactly ZERO women as Managers or Directors at any level. The Company also said 'yes I think she was paid too much'. It has been evident that the role I was in was traditionally taken by a man and I'm the only female to ever have worked on that contract and now they employ no women and replaced me with a man! Surely this can only go in my favour?

There is such a thing as subconscious discrimination and to use my solicitors' example, the reason they never once approached me about my imminent dismissal or asked me my opinion is probably because they believed that as a woman my opinion didn't count or wasn't important.

The company blamed their own Customer for forcing them to dismiss me but in all of the paperwork and evidence there is nothing at all to support that. There were minutes taken in a meeting which were doctored then signed only by the MD and issued to all who attended. We have now proven that the minutes were doctored and if I could describe the MD's face when he was questions I wouldn't be able to paint a comical enough picture for you. Basically there was a point where a resignation was offered and the response was 'if you resign we're sacking her anyway because she's the reason you'll be leaving' but that part was deleted from the minutes and we'd pointed that out in our witness statements. My solicitor asked 'there is a member of staff categorically wanting to resign but he didn't - what did you say to stop him'... the MD just said 'he didn't resign did he' but my sol simply asked again what did you say to stop him... he wouldn't and couldn't answer which proved there were parts missing from these minutes. The minutes also state that the MD and Operations Director question why I was brought into a No.2 position and why was I given such a high salary yet it was the OD that authorised my pay and appointment and the MD sent me the signed written offer of employment... 2 months later in this meeting they question it yet it was their own decisions!!! In other words - why have we put a woman in a No.2 position and why did we offer her as a woman such a high salary?

I hope the panel see all this anyway and I'm sure they will because they even picked up on points that we missed...

But onto money... The night before the tribunal, with no warning at all, my sols secretary sent me an email asking me to bring a cheque for £800 + VAT. That to me was extremely short notice and there's no way I could do it. Next day she was there for support and to see how it would go and she forgot to ask for the cheque. I got home and she'd sent me another email asking me to bring the cheque in first thing in the morning, still too short notice for me so I didn't. Now I've been given until first thing Monday morning to pay. I haven't even been given a bill yet and this came from out the blue. Firstly - I don't have that kind of money just yet to suddenly come up with and even if I did, it'll be in my fiance's account which isn't a chequing account, he has to go in to the bank and get the bank to draw up a cheque. This is not possible as he works too long hours and he was at the tribunal as a witness for me. I really have no idea how I'm going to get £800 + VAT by tomorrow morning and surely it's not right that they ask for it like that?

I feel solicitors should be vetted on their fees or perhaps capped on what they can charge? A bit like having a watchdog on utility companies etc...

Anyway - If anyone's interested I will keep an update on what happens because it's actually a haulage form I'm suing and we were all agreed it is male dominated so this could set some kind of presidence for all women wanting to be/are in haulage/transport...

Thanks everyone :-) and thanks Elaine_Wilson for the hug :-)

jonesMUFCforever

If the case is finished and you are now waiting for the result and you physically don't have the money to give - what exactly are they going to do??

Answer is nothing.

By all means pay them when you can but do not be intimidated in paying a large sum like this on the spot. Tell them in writing why you can't pay.

charmed-imsure

Thanks ejones999 and you make a very valid point. Not even a loan shark company would do something like that to people (I wouldn't think). Somebody has mentioned professional negligence because they knew full well I wasn't and still am not working and I don't claim from the social either, we rely totally on my partners income. I think they should've perhaps arranged with me to pay £100 or £150 a month from the beginning. That would be easily affordable, and if anything was left over at the end of it all, they rebate me.

If I do win my case then there will be a remedy hearing & I'm not sure if I need representation then. I have a statement of loss which the sols drew up ages ago and I saw for the first time on the day of the Tribunal, I think they use that for the remedy hearing for the purpose of compensation and repayments of losses. But I know the respondents' sols will be there should it get to that stage, if it's just to arrange compensation etc I'm not sure why a sol needs to be present unless they are supposed to argue it.

At the moment we need a loan of around £3000 to cover all this and I'm just guessing there. It was only 2 weeks ago that I paid £585 to them, then they're asking for this £800 + VAT because the barrister they sent for me doesn't work for them and they have paid him already, and that's all before they send me their final bill. We could afford to get a loan of £3k but no idea where to go for it. Partner has no adverse credit history and has an income of around £36,000 but he keeps getting refusals, I'm baffled! Seems a tad unfair to me that so many people with adverse credit history and/or CC's up to their eyeballs can get loans pretty much anywhere but we can't seem to. He has one CC that he pays off every month and normally more than the minimum amount, he has one joint loan with me, again, paid every month without fail, He hasn't jumped addresses a million times in the last 3 yrs (unlike moi) and yet still gets refused a measly £3k. I don't understand how some of these company's credit score thresholds work. I know Virgin Mobile has a threshold of 324 points which is really really high, Currys is about 280 points. Every time you apply for credit it knocks 5 points off the score and every time you fail a payment knocks 5 points off too. I suppose that depends purely on whether those companies use experian or equifax for their searches.

So if anyone has any helpful ideas of any banks or building societies that are giving away small unsecured loans I'd love to know. We don't want to go with people like Provident or Welcome because their interest rates are above 100% normally.