Bankruptcy form advice please.

fermi

The "valuable consideration and good faith" I presume means that a transaction can stand as long as you received something proportionate in value in return. In other words, it wasn't at "under value".

Not quite sure what the consider to be "in consideration of marriage" refers to.

I think it probably means that a transaction/transfer with former spouse falls in the "associate" bracket, meaning that if it was at under value they can set it aside without proving you were insolvent. You would have to prove it wasn't.

But it is not exactly clear.

I'm trying (and failing at the moment) to think of who you could get some professional advice from that wouldn't cost a fortune. Some insolvency lawyers/IP's might do a free initial consultation but that may be of limited use.

Notgotapottoweein

Thanks again Fermi.

Yes very grey area isn't it?

As i would have put " in good faith " to mean that along as the transaction was above board all will be well.

I've telephoned the insolvency service who were very nice but basically said that it would be down to each individual OR and that there was nothing set in stone.

I also phoned cccs who were trying to be helpful but weren't really by saying that my best course would be to wait the extra 18 months before petitioning so that i'd then be outside of the 5 years but this is not an option in any way shape or form.

Even if they do persue my ex wife for this money ( which i've calculated by finding out the house prices - the mortgage we had - my £5k and then halving it hope thats right! ) which amounts to around £39k equity at the time we were divorced which obviously leaves her liable for £19.5k.

Is this a big enough sum for them to be chasing it?

I know for a fact that she ploughed that money into her present house with her new partner.

fermi

It might be enough for them to go after, but it depends on the legal hassle they would have to go to.

There have also been several court cases testing whether the OR has the right to go after previous marriage settlements. First the courts ruled that they couldn't, then that was challenged and it was ruled that they could etc etc. Who knows where it has got to now?

Wish I could be more certain, but even the professionals struggle on these questions.....

Notgotapottoweein

I bet they do struggle.

Seems to me you could speak to 10 different people and get 10 varying degrees of response!

My only dilemma now is whether to fore warn the Ex or just hope my OR is sympathetic!

fermi

Notgotapottoweein wrote: »

My only dilemma now is whether to fore warn the Ex or just hope my OR is sympathetic!

Can't help you with that one either.:p

Notgotapottoweein

Right.

I've spoken to the community legal service about this and basically they are saying that because i'm petitioning for BR within 5 years of me signing over the property to my ex wife then the OR will definatley be persuing my ex wife for the remaining equity i was entitled to.

Do you wanna tell her or shall i!?

A couple ( of the usual obligatory ) questions if i may?

How would the OR calculate the value of the property at the time i signed it over ( mid 2004 )?

What are the chances of the OR finding out about this transaction if i didn't declare it on the form?

How would the OR find out if i don't declare it?



NB I'm fully intending to declare the property at the moment.

NekoZombie

Notgot

you do ask some interesting questions. One of my own (and I don't mean to harsh, just an honest enquiry) - if you intend to declare the property anyway, then why do you need to know what the chances are of the OR finding out? Surely you're going to tell him anyway so isn't this question irrelevant?

I seem to remember someone saying that this is one of the standard checks that the OR performs to make sure you aren't hiding anything; I suspect that as land registry is a public record it wouldn't be that difficult to work out that you used to own property.

fermi

Notgotapottoweein wrote: »

How would the OR calculate the value of the property at the time i signed it over ( mid 2004 )?

I have a vague (and I do mean vague) recollection about the OR using some historical house price data from 'somewhere'. But can't remember where or how at the moment.

I can also remember seeing a website that had an online calculator that does the same job a while back. But again without a lot of hunting I'm not sure where (didn't bookmark it).

Notgotapottoweein wrote: »

What are the chances of the OR finding out about this transaction if i didn't declare it on the form?

How would the OR find out if i don't declare it

Pretty good I would of thought since I have heard of it happening.

As Neko says, Land Registry Records.

Notgotapottoweein wrote: »

I've spoken to the community legal service about this and basically they are saying that because i'm petitioning for BR within 5 years of me signing over the property to my ex wife then the OR will definatley be persuing my ex wife for the remaining equity i was entitled to.

To be honest that is what I would have presumed, before the IS decided to try and blind you/us with legal ramblings and jargon.:rolleyes:

The safest assumption is to presume they will, and if they then don't that is a bonus (maybe).

Notgotapottoweein

NekoZombie wrote: »

Notgot

you do ask some interesting questions. One of my own (and I don't mean to harsh, just an honest enquiry) - if you intend to declare the property anyway, then why do you need to know what the chances are of the OR finding out? Surely you're going to tell him anyway so isn't this question irrelevant?

I seem to remember someone saying that this is one of the standard checks that the OR performs to make sure you aren't hiding anything; I suspect that as land registry is a public record it wouldn't be that difficult to work out that you used to own property.

I do my best!

Its always handy to know all angles if you can.

I know it'll be on the land registry but how will they know what i was paid for it?

fermi

Notgotapottoweein wrote: »

I know it'll be on the land registry but how will they know what i was paid for it?

I think the person I can remember this happening to was asked to provide all the paperwork relating to the transfer and its associated costs to the OR.