Are Norwich Union Crooks? - What gives them the right to mess with With Profits?

peterbaker

Further confirmation I think that With Profits is a black art.

When the company salesforce gets told that terminal bonus is not a feature of the company's products, but instead that substantial and stable reversionary bonuses is a main feature, and when later on the tune is changed and terminal bonuses start appearing in illustrations so they appear to hold water, then you begin to realise how unregulated it all has been, dunstonh.

I have already reserved 10cm of filing space in my personal investment products filing drawer for all the 2008 jolly wheeze notices of change to policies with my name on. These changes are some already flown on kites last year (like the one complained of in the OP) plus new ones not yet dreamed up but nevertheless which I feel must surely be inexorably on their way to my letterbox this year, as last and the year before that, and the year before that...they just can't help themselves can they?

peterbaker

Ha! No wonder AVIVA can't help themselves. The guys and girls who dreamed up this wheeze must be wetting themselves at the prospect of their next Christmas bonus :mad: . They've just announced the size of it. They have picked and wrestled £2.3 billion off the money tree and are presenting it as windfall .

Bloody scrumpers :mad: . Is it still legal to shoot scrumpers with a crossbow ? ...


THey've bare-facedly plundered our own money from where it was invested - pulled it out and said "Here, look what we found in that money pot we look after for your your retirement / other long term investment - MONEY! You can have some now if you like!" and siphoned off 10% for themselves. Despicable.

It's a bribe ladies and gentlemen. Pure and simple.

Doesn't this all put the constant whining of the entire pensions industry about the Chancellor's piffling £5 billion a year reduction in the entire industry tax concessions into full perspective? AVIVA can pick up £2.3 billion from just two funds which has fallen apprently over-ripe from the tree.

Nah. Billions aren't significant to the health of pensions in these funds. They can't be, can they? AVIVA have today reduced this insignificant £2.3 billion they've 'discovered' to the status of small change and little windfalls for all - not forgetting 10% for themselves of course :mad:


Why is this money being taken out of my pension fund? I say AVIVA are crooks ... Who will feel their collar? Where are the DTI and FSA today? Toothless wonders the lot of them ...

dunstonh

NU have just announced a £2.1billion special bonus to be paid over 3 years to existing policyholders (not new business). I posted a copy of the announcement in the mortgage and endowment section.

peterbaker

dunstonh wrote:

(from the other thread http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=8431649&postcount=1 ) So, those of you on NU endowments may wish to reconsider your options if you were looking to call it a day.

The cynical side of me would say that NU reduced the annual bonus to allow them to red alert most of their endowments to start the time bar clock ticking (they cannot do that on amber shortfalls so they get anyone with a potential £1 shortfall and call it red). Having achieved that they can pay a special bonus which doesnt get included in the projections (noting that the mortgage promise value isnt in the projections either and for many of the NU plans, nor is the final bonus accrued to date). The special bonus is really what they would have paid if they werent thinking about the time bar.

I'd say your cynicism is well placed. Special bonus my ar*e.

Notice how in the written release they've already deducted their 10% from the £2.3 billion.

hedgehunter_2

Only you Mr Baker, can describe a 2.1b give away to policyholders as bad news. On top of any proposed reattribution

It is not policyholders own money, the estate belongs to CGNU, after the distribution 90% it will belong to the policyholders.

If the total distribution is 2.3b why should the shareholders not get their 10% entitlement of 230million?

Where are the FSA? They must have approved this distribution.

Dunstonh, this is the first bad call from you I have seen in a long time with regards to red letters. Far too cynical and just not true.

dunstonh

Dunstonh, this is the first bad call from you I have seen in a long time with regards to red letters. Far too cynical and just not true.

Dont get me wrong. I like NU as a provider and feel peter is being unjust. However it does seem a little strange that just a short period after removing amber warnings and generally lowering bonuses on long term business that they then announce this rather large special bonus.

I dont have many clients left in with profits any more having moved them out years ago. However, the only two companies that I have left alone or at least still utilised (maybe with part removals into unit linked) are NU and Pru. Both of those providers have viable with profits options. Albeit on a far more limited basis than was used in the past.

Most with profits funds are 90:10 so the distribution is fine.

peterbaker

Sorry dunstonh, I seems I hath leadeth thee unto temptation to be too cynical in the face of avarice and opportunity, the extent of which after this morning's showing doth indeed appear boundless ... and now you're in trouble with the Propagandist Denier :rolleyes:

Roll on the Day of Judgement , that'll ladder his tights

TRUSt_NO_1_2

Peterbaker:
”…….Why is this allowed? Why can third parties like Employers and Trustees mess with our pension funds and why can supposedly trustworthy insurers can also mess with them? How can fund managers in the city justify taking huge annual bonuses when our pension funds have been performing miserably? I think we have reached a stage in the UK where there are so many sticky fingers in our churned pension pots that we should be allowed to take our own money and run”


Take your money and run?

I don’t think so!

What do you think would happen to the stock market if nobody had pensions?
Good grief. Next thing you’ll be saying get rid of the Queen!
Where would Britain be without the entrepreneurs who take your money, gamble it on the stock market and retire to the Virgin Isles?

Live in the real world !

Rule Britannia !
God save the Queen !
Terrorism (had to get that one in to be politically correct)

Go on Youtube, type in ‘Zeitgeist’ ,watch the videos on the Federal Reserve (and 9/11 for that matter) and learn about the ‘importance’ of the global financial system.:cool:

Careful_with_that_Axe

peterbaker wrote: »

... and now you're in trouble with the Propagandist Denier :rolleyes:

Roll on the Day of Judgement , that'll ladder his tights

ROFLFAO :rotfl:

Been following this thread just out of interest - no axe to grind, and had virtually tied my fingers in knots refraining from posting a fascitious remark about this.

Tozer

Sadly Peter seems to think that any successful business is a corrupt business and that the directors and shareholders should be thrown in the Tower of London.