Careers advice/ Project Management

big_mortgage

Hi

Well I have been lurking on here for four years. I should have registered earlier and feel a bit guilty just coming on here asking when I may have been able to help others in the past. However some the advice some ppl get restores my faith in the human race!

I am sorry this is so long but it’s kinda therapeutic writing all this down.

If anyone, esp in the project management/engineering area could offer advice I would be very appreciative.

I am currently in a job I don’t like (well OK… hate, Sunday evenings are awful:o ). I have a Bachelors in Electronics and a Masters in engineering project management. I have had several jobs since my first degree and I did my masters because I didn’t like my first graduate job.

I am a project planner, basically doing admin work as. I have been fairly depressed over the last few months. This is my first permanent job since gaining the masters. I have had several temp jobs before then. Without going into too much detail my job involves creating project plans on MS Project and doing financial reporting. It’s all paperwork and I have no involvement or long term role like the other team members (they go abroad and out of the office on different locations doing their bit!. The absolute low point is having to cut and paste action items from minutes of a meeting into Sharepoint. I have done hundreds of these. I feel my brain is turning to mush

It’s horrible being stuck in front of a PC for 40 hours a week. I want to meet clients etc (I think)

I have mentioned that to my boss that ‘I am not challenged’ in what I do, my poilte way of meaning bored, (this took a lot of guts!) He suggested a couple of options. I followed that up with an email selecting one of those options he offered me, but nothing has happened. This was late August. I don’t really want to make another approach.

I want to be actively involved in a project, making it progress and have some responsibility for it. I KNOW I am capable. (I don’t want to sound big headed, just need to keep my confidence up!) I have friends who seem to have done really well in their careers and that’s great, but I am jealous.

Thing is, I know in my heart of hearts that I want to leave. I have no interest in the company’s area (aviation). well ok I think planes are OK and it sounds good, but not when you get in depth. And yet when people ask what I do they say ooohhhh cool. Irony huh ?

An additional problem for me is I don't have a great idea what I want to do. I have an interest in design (one uni module was design management) and the degree could easily have been called after any one of my module, as project managment was just one of the 8 modules.

I read all these great job ads and a lot of the graduates now start on more than me. I feel I should be doing better. I must emphasise thought that I would place being happy in a job I like above money, knowing what being unhappy in a job is like.

I have emailed my uni careers advisor and they said ask ppl in the industry how they got to where they were and have them look over your CV. So is there anyone who would be willing to cast an eye over my CV, who is engineering/ design/ project managment related.

1. to see how it looks or to suggest any improvements, to see if you think I could cut it in a 'high flying job'
2. perhaps more importantly to suggest any areas of industry that may be suitable for me.
I am interested in IT/ Internet/ telecoms/ automotive and electronic goods.

I am ambitious, want to use my skills, fell I have a lot to contribute and want to go home at the end of the day knowing I have achieved something. I feel so underused and often think 'have I really done 2 degress to do admin work ?.....grrrrrr'

Zazen999

Hi

Welcome to posting...

Anyhow - my first instinct after reading your post is that it does indeed resemble action points being pasted...which isn't a bad thing!!! But it could mean that you are so ingrained in what you do that it is difficult to get out of it.

The first thing I would say about this 'high flying job' you mention; is that the stress increases as you move up, as the closer you get to the top the closer you get to the bottom line...if you see what I mean. In financial terms, anyway. Do you really want that?

It's one thing looking at a CV, which by all means pm me and I can look at it; but it's generally the people skills that allow you to meet and greet, and that means getting better at networking - the old adage it's not what you know it's who you know is so true.

I would also ask what is it about the IT/internet/Telecome/Automotive/Electronic sectors that interests you...try and put a finger on what it is you like [no right or wrong answers, but try and find a common denominator].

What about getting a part time job; completely out of your comfort zone for a few weeks [for experience not for the £] - say working in a bar/shop to brush up on the people side of things. Looking at a computer screen for too long can remove you away from reality after a while, just an idea to widen scope [plus you never know who you might meet].

What in your eyes would be an Achievement??? a Sale? A problem sorted? 1000 clicks on a website? More £ in the pocket? Meeting a new client? 10/10 on customer satisfaction survey? Only you know.

How would you go about resolving a horrid query with a client: in my line of work loads of staff wanted to go and meet clients; but were absolute jelly in dealing with them when the client has an issue/problem/complaint. I used to put the potential advisers through the paces in interview and many didn't even consider that side of it; have you got the skills to actively diffuse the situation and to avoid arguing back? How would you deal with a bully? There are loads about [in real life and online]. All these things come up when dealing with clients and that might be the reason that you haven't been pushed in that direction yet. Not that you can't cope - but you might not have thought about how you would...for example - how you manage your manager. You have politely hinted at being bored; but not actually told them anything in essence; you have to be bolder to instill confidence. What were the options they gave you? And have you pushed for getting one sorted - they might be waiting on you to approach them again. If you can't approach them, then how can you approach clients etc???

What is it about those that are ambitious and get somewhere; what do they do that you don't? Have you studied their ways of doing things; what effect does that have on others?

What skills that aren't related to your current job have you got - they are usually called transferrable skills; if you want to research into what skills employers look for in what sort of roles - you could do worse that look at the Myers Briggs Personality Type indicators: not wanting to do a psychology class here but it is important to match your job to your personality; if at all possible.

I'm not expecting you to answer openly personal questions on here, but these are sorts of things that you could look at, possibly with a friend/colleague that you trust. I don't know you at all but I think that only you can really know what you want to aim for, and it takes a while to work out what you want to do.

big_mortgage

Hi

well firstly thanks for your reply.

Yes I have obvioulsy done all those action points, but still feel I have got nowhere. I feel that it is difficult to change indusrty sectors once you have started on one- it's not a wild change I want, still in the tech sector.

I realise stress increses, but I would prefer to be stressed under a deadline rather than bored and underused. This comment is not said lightly, havung been the latter.

I have no contacts really to ask, unfortunately, But I feel my people skills are fine, like everything you always learn, but I have worked in a bar and a shop for 3 years whilst I was a student. Part time work is not an option I am afraid, hence the user name.

the IT/internet/Telecom/Automotive/Electronic sectors interest me because they are my personal interests and I realise that I need to work in an area where I am interested in what the company does.

I have only really had 1 real acheviement in my career: winning a large contract. I was pleased at that.

Those that climb the career ladder quickly seem to work for a good company. (cop out answer I know!)

I haven't done MBTI but looked at it on a course and have figured out what I am.

Thanks again- I will PM you

big_mortgage

Zazen999 wrote: »

You have politely hinted at being bored; but not actually told them anything in essence; you have to be bolder to instill confidence. What were the options they gave you? And have you pushed for getting one sorted - they might be waiting on you to approach them again. If you can't approach them, then how can you approach clients etc???



Meant to say, good point, but it's a different relationship between employer/ employee and clients. I feel that employer should have taken that as a warning sign really. My manager did ask me if I was bored and I said yes. So it's not as if they dont know.

London_Exile

BM, the first thing you need to counter is the depression. Otherwise it will just get out of control. So thats the first thing above all else you should address. Once that's done you will be able to look more objectively about what you want and where you want to go. Depression will just keep you in a downward cycle, which can be very hard to get out of.

From your post I can see that you and I are roughly in the same boat. I'll just give you a brief outline of my situation and then tell you what I've done to get to where I want to go. I hope this will at least give you a different option. Okay, I was in a job i loved (but didn't realise), got outsourced to job I hated. My degree was, like yours geared towards a career - mine being IT. Anyway, I'm now working in an area where I'm never going to grow and want to leave. So far so similar. Here's what i have done and this is no guarantee of anything, it's just what I've done;

First off if you are having feelings that you want to leave - then it's going to take something major to turn those thoughts around. If you can't get there then start actively making plans to do so. You mention that you have repeatedly asked your manager for more challenging work. My advice would be to keep an "audit trail" of this. Emails are a good idea. this way there can be no room for doubt about what you are asking for (and be the looks of it not getting). Don't worry about your mates are doing and how well they seem (to you) to be doing. This is a very dangerous thing to do as you will only focus on the negatives here. After all I have friends who, to me seem to be more successful and earn more money and if you let it the jealousy can ruin good friendships and they are the people you need the most right now. Remember to think long term. You never know whats round the corner, for you, or for them.

Thats probably the easy part. The hard part is working out what you want to do. For me this was easy, but I would never have got to know this until everything went wrong. And now that i know where I want to be I know what to look for. You must do the same. Is there an area you've worked in before that you liked? Or maybe a total career change? Thats up to you. You mention Project Management, do you have PRINCE2 cert? Then you could take that knowledge and apply it in any PM environment. Think about skills that are transferable.Don't worry either about graduate's starting on better wages - trust me employers value experience over a piece of paper anyday. Some of the grad's and fast-streamers I've seen over the years couldn't tell you the time (or day) because all the experience they had was from labs, exams and coursework. Hardly real world experience.

My current job is so mind numbingly boring and I really have no interest in that industry anymore - but view it as a platform to get me where I want to be (as well as paying the mortgage!).

This is probably the most I can offer right now, but feel freel to PM if you want to talk. I know it all seems sh***y right now, but get yourself a plan and you will find all you have to do is follow it!

Good luck!

big_mortgage

Exile, thanks

yes I know i need to conquer the depression. It's hard. I am OK now, maybe cos it's a Fri, but it varies.

I know I want to leave. I am not going to grow there (its small- but you wouldnt think so) and I am not intererested in what the company does: vicous circle= lack of effort by me= no progress.

I will keep an audit trail- but [strike]if[/strike] when I leave I doubt I will be showing it to them.

I dont have PRINCE2. I feel I could do the foundation easily, given my degree. I have considered paying myself!!! However, I feel I need to do something a bit different -project management- it seems repetitive and admin, from my company anyway (and inefficient too). I have not been on a course with my company, well I went as a replacement for some one who was sick (so they didnt lose their money!) I feel like the poor relation.

Do you think I have a realistic chance of getting into IT? I have no s/w knowlegde but good tech background.

Thanks for your offer to PM you, I might take you up on it. Please PM me too if you think I can help, I would like to return the favour, and think I can help others.

London_Exile

BM, thanks for the thanks! Not sure what area of IT you would be interested in, but you mention a technical background - if thats with PC's you could do worse than get a job doing desktop support, yes you do have to do trouble shoot software but generally it's MS office apps and the odd in house app. But more often than not it's just setting up printers, PDA's, patching and clearing up the mess that your users create!. Hardly rocket science!

I only mentioned the audit trail thing because at my last job I was always asking for extra work, etc, but kept replies from my "line manager" - who often ignored my or just took any work for himself and treated me like a glorified admin assistant. But it's usefull to have should they try to dismiss you or force you out. At least then you can say that you have been actively asking your manager for more challenging work.

My ultimate goal now is to move back to London and then get back into the Civil Service. I sometimes think that the former will be easier than the latter - but I WILL get there. On both counts and by the end of this year. Have a plan and stick to it.

As for getting the PRINCE2 cert it's certainly a good one to get. The foundation is quite easy and passable at the first attempt. The practitioner exam is very hard. And has a high failure rate. But the one thing I can tell you every Project Manager I've worked with either doesn't have it (PRINCE2) or doesn't follow the methodology of it completely. Any projects that I've run I've not bothered with all the add-ons that you are supposed to do, like gant charts and all that jazz.

There are some good posters here who have good advice to impart. And it's helped me change my way of thinking - to grow as a person and become more self aware I think you need to experience adversity. I don't think you truly can know what you want when you are coasting through the good times.

Terrylw1

There are various qualifications that you can study privately, however some require proven experience or X hours in the environment.

PRINCE2, Six Sigma & ITIL are easier to get on with privately. If you search in Google for these and project management you will be able to investigate the qualification that it brings.

LE makes a good point. I've been a project manager and also worked within project environments are there is a structured common sense approach rather than following the correct PM qualifications structure. The reason being, companies want to get from A-B within targets and quickly so anything that should be done for best practice that won't be a benefit, gets ignored.

I don't have any PM qualifications, but I have management experience and a lot of technical experience within the sector so PM work was not difficult to adjust to. Thesedays I'm an analyst working within larger projects but I still own smaller projects within this. You could do that and see if PM work is what you enjoy.

If you want to go with IT, have you considered heading for the desktop support route as LE said? You could study your A+, MCDST, N+ and others outside of work and then try to get your first job in that area for experience as a stepping stone. There is always programming type routes but they take longer since you need to know much more.

As far as development goes, if you don't ask you don't get really. Managers are busy, they've got targets. So, they don't always push ahead with things like development or maybe it would not be financially worth it to them. So, you need to push a bit and you may get the extra you want.

Stress does get worse as you climb the ladder, but some jobs are highly stressful at the bottom. Also, stress/depression comes from many complex factors and one such factor is boredom. That lack of achievement can be draining as you think you're not getting anywhere in life. That can be worse than the stress of a busy job, because you at least get the satisfaction of the challenge.

Good luck whatever you do.

big_mortgage

Hi

Terry, thanks for your posting.

OK IT desktop support I don't think is for me, I kinda had an idea of project management of larger IT projects- but then thats PM agaiN!

I feel I could do PRINCE2 foundation easily and am aware that companies dont' follow it, as it is soooo long winded.

Terry you are exactly right, I am stressed from being bored and having work I consider dull to do. I am clockwatching constantly and have done for over a year. you are right, I dont feel i have got anywhere. It has been 2.5 years since getting my MSc.

I am also not interested in doing project schedules over and over again, nor by cutting and pasting things into a sharepoint site.

As for development: well, at the moment only essential courses are allowed- and my company likes to do things their own way, ie have courses developed especially by the head office and using those. They are like that:rolleyes: . Nothing actually commercial!

Despite me looking and reserching companies. I can't seem to find many to apply too- sounds pathetic huh? My crutch is reed.co.uk and jobsite.co.uk which are all recruitment agency advertised jobs.

Terrylw1

Hi BG,

I haven't done PRINCE2 but I picked up the book on Ebay to understand the concepts. I work with a lot of PM's and analysts with operations rather than IT and they all say the same, PM processes just don't work - they just give you an idea of how to do things and you use the bits you need.

If it's more IT, ITIL is more what you may be looking for. I've seen sites advertising training and you can easily get your hands on the stuff cheap on Ebay or as a CBT off the net.

I know what you mean about training, my company is the same. They use that as a way to keep you since it's not really a qualification.

Being bored can be worse since that leads more to depression as your self worse, motivation & confidence suffer. I know a few people who have suffered from stress and depression. Depression is far more serious and happened to the ones who were losing their self esteem, stress was for the busy ones but they didn't have the much worse issue of depression. Can happen either way though.

I see what you mean, you want more after the MSc.

The way I sorted this for myself (I was sick of managing teams all the time) was to decide what type of analysis and projects I wanted to do. Luckily for me, their was a lot and no one wanted to do them.

From there I just kept picking things up as people knew what I could do. Then I managed to persuade HR to write me a specific job spec by convincing them no one did any of this and it was required.

big_mortgage

Terry,

again cheers for replying. I get the feeling there is no way IT is a valid option for me: I am not in that sector, nor do I have any IT qualifications.

Yep, again you are right about the bordom. I just want something to do that interestes me, so I dont have to wish the day away. I Do need something more, I know I can do better for me and the company I work for ( or will work for!)

can't think of much more to say right now. I will try to get some PRINCE2 books, been trying since before xmas!