Hugh's Chicken Run (Merged Discussion)

geordie_joe

Plushchris wrote: »

but didnt you just say..

Make up your mind, how do you feel you can make a valid point when the first thing you type is a contradiction to what you said earlier??

You critisised someone for not buying free range chicken and stated that it was because they were pig headed and stubborn and that they spent all their money on Sky, fags and Stella.

I criticised you for saying that, I know you said it. You criticised the person for something you think they are and do. You don't know if that person is stubborn and pig headed, nor do you know what they spend all their money on. i know what you wrote. There's a big difference between assuming someone does something and criticising them for it and criticising them for something they have wrote in a public forum.

Plushchris wrote: »

And just because the chickens in your local butchers are frozen does that mean they are not free range? have you actually bothered asking?

In one of my other posts I said that I had checked the chickens in Somerfield and not one was free range. I also said that Somerfield sell ready cocked chickens so I asked the girl if the chickens she was cooking were free range. She said "i don't know, but go and look at the chickens in that fridge over there, that's where I get these ones from".

So yes, I did ask.

~Chameleon~

http://www.channel4.com/food/on-tv/river-cottage/hughs-chicken-run/hugh-fearnley-whittingstall-talks-chicken-08-01-03_p_2.html

A committed free-range enthusiast, Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall investigates intensive chicken farming on the Channel 4 series, 'Hugh's Chicken Run'. In the programme, Hugh investigates intensive chicken farming and is driven to quite astonishing lengths to demonstrate what he strongly believes is the cruelty involved. Here, Hugh reveals how he’s beginning to win this battle.

Your new series is really something of a campaign, isn't it?

Absolutely - it's called Chicken Out. We want to change the way chicken is produced in Britain. We think the more people understand, the more they'll be inclined to upgrade the welfare of the birds that they buy. We're leading with a call for free range, but we're also putting a lot of pressure on supermarkets and the industry to raise the basic standards of indoor, intensive production as well, so that even if more people choose free range, the standards for intensive farming will improve as well.

Why is this such an important issue to you?

Chickens were the first ever livestock that I raised at River Cottage. They've been giving me eggs and meat all my life, and now I rear my own, for both eggs and meat. And I think they're the front line of animal welfare in this country, and the way in which they're farmed is something to which the public are denied access. You've got chicken farms with barbed wire all around them, which is not necessary to keep the birds in. I particularly target the supermarkets because they sell so much cheap chicken - it's right at the heart of their price wars with each other, and they use it to try and gain market share.

Why did you start your own intensive chicken farm as part of this project?

We tried to get access to the industry but approaches were shut down pretty quickly. I really wanted people to understand how this was done, and indeed if I wanted to understand it fully myself, I had to raise at least one crop of standard birds according to industry regulations. It was in a scaled down experiment. Mostly there's between 20,000 and 40,000 birds in a shed. We scaled that down to ten per cent - we raised 2,500 birds.

At the heart of the problem is a bird which is now more or less a genetic freak. It takes half the time to raise a bird to market weight of two kilos that it did 30 years ago. It's gone down from about 80 days to less than 40 days. And, in order to do that, you need very specialised conditions. They are not the natural conditions that any edible or any fowl should be raised in. They are indoors, without natural light, the period of darkness they're given may be as little as one hour in 24, so that they are constantly feeding. They can't move very far, all they can really do is feed and rest and feed and rest, and put on this extraordinary unnatural weight. To raise a free range alternative to the same weight takes anything up to twice as long. The minimum is 56 days, but often it takes 70 or 80 days.

Did you encounter a lot of hostility from poultry farmers?

Surprisingly not. There's a lot of common ground there. I talked to a number of them, mostly off the record, and they're keen to work in a less intensive industry, but they can't do it as long as the supermarkets and the fast food outlets are demanding such low prices from them. Given a choice, most farmers would prefer to de-intensify. They are aware that, over the years, they've been forced into a position where their public image is pretty poor. But part of the programme is about a dialogue with the supermarkets, and that's on-going.

Is the quality of meat you get from an intensive bird considerably inferior?

Oh absolutely. Considerably. On several occasions during the series we offer people free-range chicken, sometimes for the first time, and they said categorically that they could taste the difference. And the group from Millwey, the local housing estate, who we got to raise their own chickens for the series on their allotment, said that the chickens they'd reared and seen slaughtered and cooked for themselves were the best they'd ever eaten.

Inevitably, there's a trade off for them, shopping on a budget. You do confront that issue, don't you?

Yeah, we do. It's not easy. It appals me that barely two or three per cent of all the chicken we eat in this country is free range. It should be 30 or 40 per cent, as it is in France. Many, many more people could afford to eat free range chicken. Of course, there are people on a very tight budget for whom that would be a real struggle. But at the same time, if the minimum welfare standards for indoor poultry were raised, those people could eat cheaper chicken with a clearer conscience.

You're also trying to turn Axminster into Britain's first entirely free-range town. What kind of response have you encountered there?

I have to say mixed. It was a real challenge. The campaign really stirred things up - it divided the town. We had a lot of very strong support and some very significant changes in the way the town shopped. But at the same time there was something of a backlash from people who didn't like to be made to feel guilty about the kind of food they were eating. That's one of the fascinations of the series, and one of the things that made this really tough for me. I was on my own doorstep in my own town, and not everyone was friendly or receptive. It all comes to a head in the final show, but I don't want to give too much away. It wasn't an easy ride all the way, I can tell you that.

geordie_joe

Take a look at this video of an interview with HFW

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7150000/newsid_7155000/7155036.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&asb=1&news=1&bbcws=1

In it the chickens are mention, and he clearly says "we have harvested our last crop for the year"

I take this to mean that after the new year he will be harvesting more chickens.

Don't get fooled by him saying "and I shall be cooking them tonight in a cookery demonstration" He had thousands and there's no way he will be cooking all of them.

geordie_joe

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

But does he? As I said in the other thread I'm fairly certain (without looking up the facts) that all those chickens would have been slaughtered last year when it was filmed, so unless he's continued to produce free rangers on a large scale he won't have any either.

In the video he seems to indicate that he will be producing more chickens.

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

And in any case, he only raised 1400 free range chickens, the other 2600 were intensively reared.

That's still a lot of extra free range chickens for Axminster.

Lotus-eater

Ohh please! Enough.
HFW IS the brand, he doesn't need to make a few quid by selling a few chickens, he is the name and the money, its his name that sells the books and the courses on his farm. He has always campaigned for better conditions for animals, just this time on a bigger local scale.
Yes I said that I think he's got too big as a brand and it makes me a little uneasy and yes I like a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone, but fgs to seriously think he's done it for a few quid selling a few chickens.......

Titania777

For anyone that's interested in the animal welfare subject there is some more information here

http://www.hillside.org.uk/

Includes investigations into the RSPCA Freedom Food etc.

I am a vegetarian but don't feel the need to preach to meat eating family and friends. Suffice to say, it is a matter of individual choice (or sometimes conscience), made up of all different factors. I do though, keep them informed of any information I have regarding ethics/welfare of the animals they may be eating.

Re the HFW programmes and others, I look on it that at least the prgrammes may be educating people that were not aware of the situation and giving them more information to make a choice. This will boost the celebrities’ income but it's only the 'celebrities' that will be given air time to get their point across. Lots of 'ordinary' people have been aware of what's been going on for years.

When I purchase meat, eggs etc to cater for family or friends, I always buy organic (I feel there is still too much of a grey area for 'free-range').

I have an incredibly small food budget but as I can prepare and cook properly (like lots of others here), the food does go further, so I buy less of it.

Nothing is ever wasted - skin, dripping, carcass all get used up for soups, stocks etc.
Anyone that has eaten my organic food normally says it reminds them of the food they had when they were kids (we are all in our 40's) and says it tastes much better than normal. Most now include some organic purchases with their shopping.

I suppose it all boils down to how bothered you are by what you eat, worse case scenarios like bleached chicken, meat pumped with water to make it look more, well the list goes on, that's why there needs to be more information readily available to the general public.

Plushchris

geordie_joe wrote: »

In one of my other posts I said that I had checked the chickens in Somerfield and not one was free range. I also said that Somerfield sell ready cocked chickens so I asked the girl if the chickens she was cooking were free range. She said "i don't know, but go and look at the chickens in that fridge over there, that's where I get these ones from".

So yes, I did ask.

Again, you have obviously ignored what I wrote, you said you have never seen your local butcher sell a chicken that wasnt frozen but you have obviously never asked in there, just in Somerfield.

Pay attention! :rolleyes:

xlt_hunter

Shambler wrote: »

I saw a program and it showed a colour chart ( a bit like a dulux paint chart ) of different colours ranging from a pale yellow to a deep orange.

Different supermarkets had their own requirements for the yolk colour and so dye was added to the food to reach their desired colour.

It would not surprise me if this dye is also fed to 'organic free range' eggs.

I've not seen anyone complain about this yet so it is probably still in practice.

There are 2 charts IIRC - Kemin and Roche (roche being the widey used one) - there is set target in which supermarkets choose a band on the scale like beween the numbers 4-10. No 1 being very pale and 12-14 orange and in fact you can get red yolks - red yolks is a little interesting.

The yolk colour changes with the amount of grass that the bird etc, also other things like creepy insects as well. Cage and Barn IIRC do have "addivites" added to their feed - not a dye as such. You can't have organic eggs if you add the additive as organic means free from Additives and crap

With Red yolks, these birds are fed more dye (they will be certain Free Range farms), they can not enter the egg production system (it has happened :rolleyes:) - these eggs end up in the pasta trade (hence they are called pasta eggs in the trade) break one of these out and it will put you off eggs all together as its not nice.

geordie_joe

Plushchris wrote: »

Again, you have obviously ignored what I wrote, you said you have never seen your local butcher sell a chicken that wasnt frozen but you have obviously never asked in there, just in Somerfield.

Pay attention! :rolleyes:

You don't actually need to ask, if they are free range it says so on the packaging!

I sometimes get the bus to Salisbury, I don't ask the driver if he is going to Salisbury because the time table says the 187 goes to Salisbury and when it arrives it has a sign says Salisbury - 187.

I don't think this has actually happened, but I could have been in the shop when someone else asked and heard the answer.

Plushchris

geordie_joe wrote: »

Because I only wished I was one so I could attack you for eating chickens and know I had the moral high ground by not eating any animal products myself.

The single most ludicrous excuse for becoming a vegan I have ever heard.

Becoming a vegan JUST so you can claim the moral high ground?