Request to reduce hours

frogga

Hello Sheramber and Brie, thank you for your replies.

Yes, Son is in union and union rep said they will speak to HoD. ACAS state she must have certain legitimate grounds to say no, and she has to state what her reasons are. So far, she has just said no but will not give an answer as to why. According to ACAS she has to provide an answer.

Yes, maybe HoD knows of something that is happening in the near future, I accept the premise, but I dont think that is what has happened here. Knowing all the facts, I think it is a case of 'if your face fits' you get what you want.

What frustrates me, is that unlike a lot of his colleagues, son has caused no trouble at all. He works hard, is good at job, gets good feedback, never off sick, never causes issues etc, but has not been 'rewarded' for this loyalty. Others make a lot of fuss, go off sick all the time, cause issues, and they get what they want. He feels deflated that this is the first thing he has ever asked for, and it was instantly dismissed with no reason, and if there was a reason, they didnt have the good grace to say what it is so he can challenge it.

MacMickster

Ultimately your son's only real means of pursuing this would be taking his employer to an employment tribunal, but, even if he won, that is rarely going to lead to a good employee/employer relationship going forward. If he lost then he may well find himself looking for a new job.

His union may choose to support him to take this to a tribunal if he wants to take it that far. If they won't do that then it will be an indicator that they think that he is unlikely to win.

If he needs to work these shorter hours for a specific reason then he is probably best looking for a job elsewhere with shift patterns that meet his needs. If, however, he simply fancies finishing earlier on unpopular shifts then he really needs to just take what has been offered, buckle down, but let it be known that he is still interested in reducing his hours if the opportunity arises in the future.

oldernonethewiser

The business believes they have a reason to refuse the request. You may disagree with that reason but as you pointed out they do need to let your son know why.

Has he worked there for long?

Loyalty is a concept in many workplaces that has long ceased to exist.

lincroft1710

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82144751#Comment_82144751

"Flexible hours" and "reduced hours" are not the same thing.

How long has your son worked there?

frogga

Thank you all for your replies - very much appreciated.

Son has worked there for 4 years. It is a VERY large organisation (Nationwide). He would be prepared to go to a tribunal, and although my instinct would be to say that would make working relationships difficult, I think that it probably wouldn't as people move on very quickly and he has had a few HoDs since starting. Colleagues do tend to come and go, bosses do tend to come and go too. People at the very top have no idea who he is.

It will be interesting to see what the union will do, if they wont support him, as you say, it may be telling. Without going into specifics, he has asked to reduce his hours for family reasons. Reducing an 8 hour shift by 90 mins (and not having a 30 min lunch so working a straight 6 hours). This is exactly what others have done on their various shifts.

The issue is the unfairness of it. Several others have been allowed to drop whole days, when it has left them shorter staffed then when he is asking to just reduce by 90 mins. This 90 mins is at a time when the early shift and late shift are all in, so there are MORE staff in work, and it is actually at the quietest time of the day.

The HoD sited one reason for refusal of certain shifts was that it would not leave enough people in, but she agreed to shifts when there were actually more people in. Now her stance appears to be 'dont question me, I'm the boss', but ACAS says her refusal must be fair and all employees must be treated equally. That has definitely not happened.

Son is utterly convinced that her refusal is against the Law, so he is not actually asking for opinions if he is right, he just wants to know what the process is to challenge this. It appears that it would be a tribunal then?

Again, many thanks for those offering help, I know people are busy and it is appreciated.

MacMickster

I must say that if ACAS have actually said that "her refusal must be fair and all employees must be treated equally" then they are talking out of their backsides. Going to a tribunal on that basis would almost certainly lose.

An employer mustn't discriminate against an employee due to a protected characteristic in law, but other than that they can discriminate against anyone or treat them unfairly for any reason they like - maybe because they have ginger hair and that isn't a protected characteristic.

frogga

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82145199#Comment_82145199

Thank you very much for posting this. It sounds nuts. I am not trying to be rude in any way at all as you have been so kind as to reply, but may I ask what your qualifications are about this matter please? I would like to know if you are speaking with knowledge or just opinion. Very very sorry if that is rude.

MacMickster

I am speaking as a former employer. I'm sure if you wait others will be along to confirm that there is no right to fairness nor to be treated equally to other employees. Maybe your son could contact the ACAS advisor again and ask them which law they think requires this. Your son's union rep should also be able to put him straight on this point.

Unfortunately, many employees have the mistaken impression that they have more rights or entitlements than is actually the case, and that can lead to friction.

lincroft1710

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82145209#Comment_82145209

If you look back at some of the threads on this board you will see that what @MacMickster is saying is correct. Taking an employer to a Tribunal when the employer has not breached employment law is at the very least, unwise!

frogga

Thank you both, that is very sage advice. Thank you