SA109 help with some questions

pecunianonolet

Hi there,

I need to complete an SA109 and on paper the questions seem straight forward but when I read the guidance notes it provides twists and turns with an exception for an exception and I am now genuinly confused. It is about a split year case 1 claim.

Especially box 9 - 14 throw me off.

I know that to answer those questions a lot of detail is required, happy to provide that in a PM.

poseidon1

I recall from one of your past threads, you may be Scottish resident ( at least your wife was).

The SA109 has a distinct bias towards rules and tests related to English tax residency but Scotland seems to have its own tests for Scottish tax payers - see below

https://library.croneri.co.uk/po-heading-id_0Qr2mEIo302gGYbDtw500g

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/scottish-taxpayer-technical-guidance/sttg4100

Bearing all this in mind, even if there was an English tax practitioner on this forum versed in the rules for tax residency and split year treatment related thereto, the nuances of Scotland's take on the same regime might not be fully appreciated.

Seems your best bet would be to engage the services of a Scottish based tax accountant with appropriate experience in such matters to walk you through the SA109, and perhaps provide you with strategic advice for the future if you are likely to become tax resident abroad again.

pecunianonolet

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82147134#Comment_82147134

Thank you for your response.

Yes, indeed it was Scotland for me and I was tax payer there, left 28th Feb, started full time work overseas 2nd of March under PAYE for Uk employer before my own company was set up to prevent any significant employment gaps. I briefly returned to UK for 4 days in March, of which I worked 2.

The impact is that with split year case 1, I get basically, except of those 2 days all income tax back for March and my taxable pay also reduces, which would, together with pension constributions in the tax year, exapnd my banding quite a lot. I would also move most of my taxable interest into the 20% band, instead of the 40% band.

For example box 10 on the SA109, on paper the question simply is "Number of days spent in the UK
during 2025 to 2026" so you would assume this applies to the entire tax year number. Only the guidance notes reveal that if you tick box 3 to claim split year treatment, the number of days to be put in box 10 now only applies to the overseas part.

This is clearly layed out in the guidance notes so an easy one to fill. Many other boxes, there is nothing or very little. It almost feels like it has been done deliberatly that way, to make it so complicated, that it is almost impossible to do it yourself.

poseidon1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82147596#Comment_82147596

I suspect you are right about the deliberate complexity of the SA109 and the statutory residence test regime lying behind it.

At my firm before I retired ( years ago) I handled the private family trust affairs of wealthy non doms.

My colleagues in another department in handling those client's personal tax compliance, maintained on their behalf highly detailed diaries of their comings and goings to the UK, precisely to ensure the ability to accruately complete their foreign income returns both for the remittance basis of tax ( that applied at the time) as well as dealing with split year treatments when it arose. Mistakes about departure and arrival dates could mean significant differences in tax outcomes.

Therefore you are looking at a team of professionals working collegiately to ensure clients were compliant but also advise them on strategic timing to maximise their tax advoidance opportunities.

Quite how lone non advised tax payers are supposed to navigate the regime by themselves and confidently complete their own returns, I really couldn't say.

pecunianonolet

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82147671#Comment_82147671

Quite interesting, you must have seen a lot in your career and I am sure you have quite some stories to tell.

Being complicated is an understating. Consider all the extra efinitions like, what is a work day, what work counts, how you would need to be able to proof your work or what is a home, etc. Digging deeper into this makes you wonder if it ever stops.

Only yesterday I was on a group call with Sotheby's International advising about property trends, changes to tax regimes, etc. and when it turned out that the majority of people were current UK residents or people from UK having already moved but looking to buy, the advise given was very clear that UK is super complicated with these sort of affairs. There were around 200 people on the call.

On the other side, there is a reason why the SA109 is not part of the standard SA portal and needs paper forms or software. I am using AbraTax as they allow to file an SA for free and are fully recognised and on the approved provider list.

poseidon1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82147700#Comment_82147700

You also clearly move in circles where the complexity of the UK tax regime is appreciated.

Towards the end of my career, it became a very dispiriting succession of firefighting and unwinding of UK and offshore structures. This resulting from what was an increasingly hostile Tory government pandering to a populist agenda to attack non doms and the public perception that they pay no tax and make no contribution.

Was interested to note that AbraTax still provide free access to their self assessment software presumably as part of their ongoing beta testing of the product. I just may give it a trial run to see how its functionality compares to the GoSimple software I have been using for years.

pecunianonolet

Yes, ongoing beta testing and free access.

Let me know what you think about AbraTax once you had a chance to compare against GoSimple.