Share dealing - need advice about "bed and spouse"

Dead_keen

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82108875#Comment_82108875

You need to understand the share scheme in a bit more detail. As written, it sounds like a US s423 plan and there would have been PAYE/NIC when you bought the shares, so your base cost of those shares for CGT purposes would be the market value of the shares rather than the price you paid. One thing that identifies this sort of thing is that the purchase one had come from your post-tax pay.

Some companies with this type of plan create a UK tax advantaged sub-plan of the US plan. You can tell that because the purchase price will come from gross pay. There will also be comms material that mentions the five year rule and tax. If it is one of these, your base cost will be a bit more complicated, typically the market value of the shares when you take them out of the trust (and you may have PAYE/NIC if you take them out before year five, unless you are a good leaver).

DRS1

@Dead_keen's post is precisely what I was thinking - that maybe your base cost is higher than the purchase price paid. But I suppose I should have asked were you UK resident when you bought these shares?

If you were UK resident and you got the shares under a UK SIP then it would be good to know but I am wondering if UBS would be holding the shares in the US in that case. I think the trustee of a SIP has to be UK resident.

Dead_keen

I think the trustee of a SIP has to be UK resident.

Good point, well made. But the SIP trustee would be different to the person administering a company's share plans. On leaving employment, shares have to be transferred out of the SIP trust and to the administrator's normal accounts and held on behalf of the former employee. If the administrator was UBS (or a company it was related to or had a JV with), a SIP is still possible.

OliverLacon

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82108441#Comment_82108441

Thanks for the comments about the share scheme - I'll see if I can find the relevant information in my old employment files..

Could someone confirm that my earlier post (copied above) is correct. The main intention being to move shares from UBS to Halifax by selling them and repurchasing them on the same day without creating a large capital gain.

DRS1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82108031#Comment_82108031

Could someone confirm that my earlier post (copied above) is correct. The main intention being to move shares from UBS to Halifax by selling them and repurchasing them on the same day without creating a large capital gain.

I think @phlebas192 already did that in his post set out above.

Of course you shouldn't ignore the dealing costs when you do the calculations (and you will need to use some exchange rate when you convert the sale proceeds from dollars to pounds).

Oh and you don't just report the gain or loss to HMRC you send them your calculations which include things like the disposal proceeds, incidental costs of disposal, date of disposal, cost of acquisition, incidental costs of acquisition and date of acquisition. I believe the worksheets showing each calculation has to be attached to your tax return. A bit of a pain as you have to convert it to a pdf document. Though there may be an online worksheet you can fill in if you tick the right box in the online tax return.

OliverLacon

Thanks DRS1. I won't ignore the dealing costs when doing the calculations for HMRC reporting. I was just ignoring them for now in my posts (for the sake of simplicity).

I've reported gains in my tax return on previous years, but I've never included any calculations or the other details you mention. HMRC have never asked for any follow up explanations. Maybe that is because the gains were fairly low - usually just a little over the CGT allowance (maybe £1000 or less).

DRS1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82109726#Comment_82109726

I've reported gains in my tax return on previous years, but I've never included any calculations or the other details you mention.

That is interesting. I assumed you had to because of this bit in the tax return (It is in the question and answer bit at the start of the return)

"If you sold or disposed of any assets (for example, stocks, shares, land and property, a business), or had any chargeable gains, read the notes to decide if you have to fill in the ‘Capital Gains Tax summary’ page. If you do, you must also provide separate computations."

OliverLacon

After your previous post I had a look at the current GCT worksheet - and discovered the detail you mention. I don't recall sending in such details though. I'll have a look at my old tax returns and check.

OliverLacon

I've checked my returns for the last 5 years. For each year my gains were less than the annual allowance. The notes associated with the CGT form says this:-

"Fill in the ‘Capital Gains Tax summary’ pages if:
• you sold or disposed of chargeable assets which
were worth more than £50,000
• your chargeable gains before taking off any losses
were more than £3,000 (‘annual exempt amount’)"

So in the Self Assessment form I've left the ‘Capital Gains Tax summary’ pages unfilled. Therefore no calculation details submitted either

DRS1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82110112#Comment_82110112

Well that is OK. You had nothing to report.

I assume you also had no losses in those years that you might want to carry forward. If you report them within 4 years then you can use them against future gains. I am not sure how the 4 year thing works so I just reported mine in the year I realised them. But maybe you are more efficient than me at using up your annual allowance each year and so have no losses to carry forward.