Unenforceable

redcliffs

I have several very old and defaulted credit card debts and so far all that got back to me, the cca’s are back as unenforceable. There are still 3 or 4 dragging their heels, stating that they are waiting for the original lender to get back to them, one (Cabot) even saying I hadn’t paid the £1 so won’t proceed with my request. To which I told them I had paid and they had cashed the check.

I have 2 questions;

Do I have to write to them to say as they are unenforceable I won’t be paying every month anymore, or do I just stop paying?

Do I also stop paying the ones who haven’t got back to me yet, it’s been a month since I made the request for the cca’s?

Grumpelstiltskin

I would stop paying all of them, hang on to the money you would have paid the ones that haven't come back yet then if they do come back with valid CCAs you can pay them.

redcliffs

thank you for your reply, I’ll stop paying 👍

Rob5342

I agree, don't pay any more until you know they are enforceable as you could just be pouring money down the drain.

You don't have to tell them you won't be paying, in my experience telling them that doesn't stop them pestering you. I would send one email thanking them for confirming that it's unenforceable and then just ignore anything else they say.

sourcrates

Its not really as clear cut as that, if a lender cannot supply a copy of the credit agreement for the account in question, it just means they cannot normally obtain a CCJ against you, for that debt, they can and will, still chase them.

I say normally, because the devil is in the detail, a trick they may try to use is by going straight to a claim form, rather than issuing a letter before action, as without a valid CCA, they would not be able to comply with an LBA.

They may try to panic you into paying or agreeing a solution you are not happy about, as people tend to freak out at the very mention of "legal action" or "court", when really the system is there for the benefit of both parties.

So if any of them do resort to dirty tricks, and send you a claim form, its very important you do not just dismiss it, because you feel the debt may be unenforceable, you would still need to defend the claim on that basis, by completing and submitting your defence, many people fail to do this, as they think they do not have too, then end up with a CCJ by default.

When a debt is unenforceable, it stops judgement being granted when that is used as a defence, it does not stop them from starting legal action in the first place, but once that defence is lodged, they usually stay the case, and it just goes away.

Just something you should be aware of if you intend to go down this path.

redcliffs

@sourcrates what is a claim form?

Is this something I should be worried about?

ManyWays

It's really unusual for someone to go to court when they have said a debt is unenforceable. In you are in England or Wales, you should get a letter Before Action/Claim, and if you reply to that saying you have been told a CCA cannot be produced, the solicitor normally returns the case to the creditor.

I don't think someone should worry about this. the point of asking for the CCA is so you can stop paying if they can not produce it.

So write to them once and tell them you will nor be paying while it is unenforceable and make sure you open all letters.

sourcrates

I would take one step at a time, let’s not get ahead of ourselves here.

See how this pans out, and in the meantime, keep your eyes on any post you receive.

redcliffs

Thank you all for the advice.
All of the credit cards were taken out pre 2006, and defaulted 10+ years ago. I thought now they were way past 6 years default and no cca, any fear of being taken to court had past. Sadly not it appears.

I’m going to stop paying the ones who have already said unenforceable, and wait a while longer for the others to reply, namely Cabot, Lowell, Moorcroft, NCO, and RMA.
RMA haven’t even acknowledged my request which was sent 15/6.

Cabot are the only ones who took payment for the cca request.

I’m sure they will still pester me about paying by post, as this is the only method they have to contact me, no phone number or email address thankfully.

JibberdyDacodo

All of the credit cards were taken out pre 2006, and defaulted 10+ years ago. I thought now they were way past 6 years default and no cca, any fear of being taken to court had past. Sadly not it appears.

Has to be 6 years with no acknowledgment of the debt (i.e. no payment or confirming in writing)

RAS

It's important to understand the fact that a debt is unenforceable in court does not in itself prevent a creditor starting legal proceedings, whether that is by virtue of time limits (in England and Wales) or absence of a CCA. Or for that matter, simply the fact it's not even your debt.

The expectation in all cases is that someone who receives notice of a court case will defend the action.

So it's essential that you acknowledge the claim and reply to the court within the time frame. Then defend your case based on the evidence, of non-payment, missing CCA or mistaken identity. If you respond to the first letter threatening action, most just close the case before that's necessary.

In England and Wales statute barred debts still exist, unlike Scotland were they are extinguished.

Creditors are not supposed to initiate court proceeding if they know the debt is unenforceable. They are also not supposed to sell on debts known to be unenforceable. But sometimes they sell on huge slates of debt that hasn't been fully checked.

The other year a lot of people came on after New Year panicked, being chased for very old statute barred debt. Generally this was just fishing letters but it was necessary for each person to respond. It became apparent that a company had bought a huge package of debts and was trying to extract value by bulk mailing with minimal checking. The cases tailed off after a few months.

We've occasionally seen people end up with CCJs because they didn't respond to an LBA or claim "because the debt was unenforceable".