Should I go for another quote though I like what I have so far?

Cherryfudge

Hi guys and thanks @ArtyJ931 for signposting me here.

This is being written in a rush as I have to get to work soon, but having decided to go for solar, we arranged two meetings with companies. One of these came recommended through some sort of clearing company, the other seems to have bought our phone number off said company and called on spec. I can see that from their POV that's astute business, and that's what they seem to shine at. Call them Company A.

Company B came recommended as meeting our needs through the clearing company and we had a video call but to be honest although they were okay, they didn't shine and the aftercare seemed quite limited.

Unfortunately Company A is both massively more expensive and puts pressure through a limited time offer. That's up today and would in our case amount to an extra battery - so a larger inverter too, but their AI has indicated 16 panels on east and west facing roofs, constant AI monitoring to optimise returns and lots of links with big name companies. It looks like a quality package and I'm very tempted. It was also done with a site visit, which company B didn't do, but which I can see has all those subtle sales techniques of personal contact etc. The sales person didn't personally come across as pressurising, there was nothing negative but I'm just aware those things are going on.

I'm so tempted to jump for this package, but wary I may not be dealing with the only company that offers these things. We are low electricity users (just two of us, and we also have gas) and initially all I'd thought of was to cut our bills and be greener (yes, there are the issues of materials used in panels and batteries, but the power of the sun is there anyway and is just being harnessed). Part of the sell is evidently that we would get money back from selling back to the grid. I know we would have to buy power in winter (North Yorkshire).

Things seem to be moving fast - there's the pressure of the sales deadline - but I know I want solar. I can afford this package, I just can't be sure that six months of digging and lots of interviewing of companies couldn't save me money.

I think I need some balanced opinions please, on whether I should go for a third or subsequent quote or just go with my instinct and the things I've learnt recently that indicate the product is good and could pay back quickly due to capitalising on our low usage and a second battery coupled with the AI driving the best buy and sell while we go on doing other things.

ETA: Company A's reviews are mostly excellent.

QrizB

Any business making "limited time offers" should be ruled out immediately. It's one of the oldest marketing tricks in the book and is included in the list of prohibited behaviours in UK consumer law.

So you can rule out Company A.

We are low electricity users

If you're low users, it's probably not worth paying for a battery at this time. It's unlikely to pay for itself. The only reason to go for one would be if you're in a part of the country that's prone to power cuts, and even then you'd need to make sure you're getting a system that will run in off-grid (island) mode.

Things seem to be moving fast - there's the pressure of the sales deadline - but I know I want solar. I can afford this package, I just can't be sure that six months of digging and lots of interviewing of companies couldn't save me money.

You've not mentioned what prices you've been quoted, what equipment you're going to get for the money, or how long you expect it to take to pay for itself.

Can you share this info?

Also, who are the two companies? Many of the big national firms are poor value.

Cherryfudge

Wasn't sure I was allowed to name names but 'Company A' is L1me 3nergy and 'Company B' Is Ut1lita.

The later seemed okay but not impressive after the other one. They quoted £9,135 excluding VAT for 10 panels on the west-facing roof, and estimated payback at 10 years 3 months.

L1me was on another scale - £16,519 for 16 panels over east and west roofs. Apparently their AI (OpenSolar) recommended this as optimum in our case based on things like sunlight hours for postcode, no overshadowing and tilt of roof. If I go for the full spec, this would pay back in 6.6 years - though I don't know how much that would depend on good weather, and obviously government support for smart energy is only as good as the government we have at any given moment.

I had a chat with their rep just now and got an extension till midnight tomorrow so that buys thinking time and more chance to be better informed.

One of the things that tempts me is that this is a ridiculously short payback and after that I suppose there's an element of profit. This works out as a better rate than I have on savings in the bank and would benefit us over the life of the product.

Equipment as the offer stands is 2 batteries fitted externally but plus smoke alarm if we go for loft installation, 16 mono-cell panels, ArcBoxes, scaffolding & labour, netting and end caps, 7.5 Kw inverter, ongoing AI monitoring which means buying low and selling high 24/7 ad infinitum (this is run by a subsidiary company), the certificate to enable us to export and various techy bits like cables. Also HIES warranty and EPVS validation. The Ut1lita quote was 10 panels, 4Kw battery and inverter (he dismissed east-facing panels out of hand based on google maps but other properties round here have them).

Qyburn

How are they calculating payback, what production and unit prices are they assuming?

QrizB

Are you in England and Wales? Scotland is it's own market and Northern Ireland is a mystery to me!

The going rate for 16 panels (about 8kW of panel, in total) without a battery is around £7-8k. With a high-end battery like a Tesla Powerwall 3 you should be looking at £13-14k.

£16.5k seems a bit excessive, based on the info you've shared; what make & model of batteries are they including in that?

16 panels split east-west might generate 7000kWh/yr, which is maybe £1000 in value. I can't see quite how Lime think you're going to recover £16.5k in fewer than 7 years; they're placing a lot of faith in their "AI trading" model but that's relying on there being suitable arbitrage opportunities.

@Screwdriva what are your favoured installers currently asking for 16 Eurener panels and a PW3?

Screwdriva

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82055766#Comment_82055766

Your instinct is right - Solar PV has delivered a superior return to a Cash ISA or any other relatively safe, predictable investment for many years now, with several other benefits that are harder to quantify. My only regret is that I didn't fill my roof with panels on day 1 (and that I have run out of roof for more panels!)

Agreed with @QrizB - the price seems very high and I don't think the brands of panels/ battery/ inverter will be impressive but I'll wait for OP to share these before I share my thoughts. Based on what you have shared, I would walk away from any installer who claims that East aspect panels will not generate for you.

16 X 515W bifacial panels (8.2+ KWp) paired to a Tesla PW3 (13.5KW) with Gateway 2 will cost ~£12-12.5K installed with bird netting and 10 year workmanship warranty. These exact panels/ battery inverter were installed here and is a vastly superior system from every aspect. Would be great to get an image of the roof (Google Earth?)

I would not recommend loft installation for any battery as the guidelines recommend (but do not yet legislate) against this. The Powerwall 3 has the best cold weather performance of any home battery and can safely be mounted externally to the property with negligible performance degradation and total warranty protection, come rain, hail, snow or shine.

Cherryfudge

thanks for the replies, this is very helpful. I’ll be at work over the next few hours but will try to reply properly this evening.

debitcardmayhem

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82055766#Comment_82055766

Speed reading @QrizB 🙄 OP says N Yorks, I am guilty of speed reading too.

@Cherryfudge I agree with qrizb a little on the high side, plus the pressure salesman would put me off too. I went for a battery because I wasn't worried about ROI (we were a couple with consumption of 3600 kWh/ann with gas).

The battery is nice esp if you are susceptible to power cuts but the cost of full house back may/will be higher, you haven't detailed fully what the cost includes. Take the payback the with a grain of salt too, unless they know how the market evolves think have they aTrump card? @Screwdriva will give some more insight he/she has more experience than I.

Martyn1981

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82055665#Comment_82055665

Any business making "limited time offers" should be ruled out immediately. It's one of the oldest marketing tricks in the book and is included in the list of prohibited behaviours in UK consumer law.

So you can rule out Company A.

My thoughts exactly, and I also assumed that the 'special deal' wouldn't be very good, but I wasn't expecting it to be that much.

At least it can only get better now.

Cherryfudge

Here I am back again and nearly asleep, but I'll try to give more useful information. It's very informative to read your replies, thanks again for giving your time and thought.

Unless someone says something to make my mind change again, I intend to pull back from this offer. As you say, the time limited extra battery or 15% (?) discount is a biggie but they can't do that unless they charge higher prices and it's a pressure technique.

I'm also concerned that the research I've done so far doesn't indicate they are using products that have less impact of the environment, or that appear in lists of '10 best…'. Your replies are making me think I might be able to get some better products together and construct something like the L1me system but without paying their prices.

It's certainly been an eye opener that their approach is to maximise panels and batteries to play the system and get an optimum return. It's the opposite of 'how little can we get away with'. That appeals as it makes the system into an investment that should give returns.

A few people have said to be wary of numbers as they can't be exact, and I'm bearing that in mind.

They looked at our usage from our bills, and we don't use all that much: 1788.1kWh p.a. Most of our heating is gas and we have a log burner, but the shower and cooker are electric. We may get an EV in the future which would obviously affect consumption though our mileage isn't high (both work within walking/cycling distance).

Roof is west/East with a pitch of 39o, and the only shading is a chimney at one end.

These would be the panels, x 16 equally spread over the two aspects of the roof:

Microsoft Word - tcl_solar_HSM-ND48-GR430-450_DR_gg_datasheet_en_a4

This is the battery:

Fox ESS EP6 5.76kWh Battery with Heating Element – Powerland.co.uk

There would also have been a free one of the above had I signed up in 48 hours.

This is (I think) the inverter they advocate:

Fox Hybrid Inverter H1-3.7 3.68kW with EPS

I may have explained the AI aspect already: it monitors solar input, buys from the grid at low prices and sells back at top prices as well, of course, as providing us with electricity, filling batteries and selling excess to the grid. That's constant monitoring for a one-off payment, whereas the other company we've spoken to so far said they would ring us a couple of times a year to check if we wanted the system switched over to optimise the coming season.

Cost would be £16,519.00

Sorry if I've missed anything but I'm nearly asleep.

Screwdriva

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82056735#Comment_82056735

As expected, you have been quoted extremely overpriced, low end kit. I wouldn't proceed with either installer based on what you have shared. A couple follow up questions for you:

1) Do you experience power blackouts?
2) Any plans for a heat pump?

I ask because your annual consumption is low at 1700 odd KWh and battery may struggle to recover the upfront cost during its warranty (without a tariff like Octopus Intelligent Flux). Just something to think about and perhaps run your own calculation on?