First Parking PCN at Newborough National Nature Reserve - WON! - ICO complaint

piggypower

To add info, because I think this site will get more about this place… if you read through recent Google reviews, people who have paid for the parking, which is expensive, and stayed for a few hours, have still received fines, and paid them. They didnt realise the timing started and ended 1.2miles away from the carpark. A good bit of evidence if needed later to show the system is flawed, confusing and unfair for many people using the forest car park. The signage is all very confusing too tbh, with so much printing in small sizing.

—Managed to find on Google reviews a high quality image of the parking information. I realise my personal error is believing that the 30 minutes was free parking, its not, its a drop off period of time. -However that being said, the sign states:"If you are dropping someone off, you have 30 minutes from the time you enter the carpark to the time you get to the exit barrier before you are charged" -So, my complaint would be, this wording clearly defines the entrance of the carpark and the exit barrier to be two different places. As such, they cannot regulate this time period,as the ANPR cameras are situated where I assume they are referring to the "exit barrier", therefore the time from passing the where the cameras are located to the carpark cannot be included in the time frame they use to regulate the parking charges. Also to note, there is NO barrier anywhere, not where the ANPR cameras are located nor at the carpark. Also to note, there are two carparks accessible after the ANPR cameras, in different locations. -To me, the wording is extremely flawed, as is the camera setup. Clearly I am not the only one, as so many are getting fines even with paying lots to stay there for the time period they believed to be there. -

Le_Kirk

ICO?

Sorry, I struggle with acronyms.

All acronyms are explained in the fifth post of the NEWBIE sticky OR you could ask Auntie Google.

dogs of off the lead, plus MASSIVE speed bumps to slow you down.

Coupon-mad

"You are charged for the length of time you park" says that sign. That's the key offer then. Nothing to do with cameras.

The sign also states:

"If you are dropping someone off, you have 30 minutes from the time you enter the carpark to the time you get to the exit barrier before you are charged"

 Yet there is no 'exit barrier' and the ANPR camera is over a MILE away. Hidden ANPR camera red arrow, on the approach road waaaay back, top right of the image below..

Car park, green circle, 7-10 minutes drive away & you get '30 minutes free' but that's exactly what the Supreme Court in Beavis meant by a 'concealed pitfall or trap':

Include that in your complaint. They need more than one camera at each car park entrance. Not a single one more than a mile away.

Then come back to us with F1rst's reply so we can work out a robust ICO complaint (acronyms like that are easy to Google).

I'll also change my first advice and I say do the complaint to F1rst's DPO and also do a similar appeal on their portal. This is because there's enough here for a POPLA appeal to have legs.

piggypower

@Le_Kirk and @Coupon-mad

awesome guys. thankyou.

The letter currently concludes with the paragraph about taking my complaint seriously and that the cameras should be moved.

Any other action I should request other than a prompt and appropriate response? (time frame?)

Coupon-mad

When you send a complaint, you must always end it with what you want the recipient firm to do about it and by when.

Add what I suggested in my reply above.

piggypower

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82058280#Comment_82058280

What time period is a reasonable one for them to respond? 7 days? 14days? @Coupon-mad

James_Poisson

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82058088#Comment_82058088

The Code of Practice is what it says a code of practice or best practice to help the operator comply with the laws that exist the four month advice is to allow users of the car park to familiarise themselves with the new rules and is stating that extra signage draws visitors to that fact was there any? It is another addition to any appeal or defence.

Those signs also state that you are timed from the time you "enter the car park" not the access road in addition it states categorically that you "are charged for the length of time you park" all these pieces of evidence add up to show that the operator is inept, not conforming to the COP, signing mixed instructions, or using entrapment probably in my view all four.

piggypower

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82058544#Comment_82058544

There MAY have been a sign at the old barriers (now ANPR) location… but the entire 1.2miles and at the carpark there were no temporary repeater signs of the changes at all.

I didnt know about the changes until all this info/research was done.

NRW claimed in their email reply that its not 'free parking' but 'free period of time to drop off passengers'… yet the Ringo app for the parking site, I checked this yesterday, allows you to BOOK 30minutes FREE PARKING for the carpark.

I had other friends with us stay for the same period of time, one thought we were staying longer so paid £5… the other couple used the app to book the 'free parking' and dont appear to have got a PCN… but NO WHERE on ANY of the signs, going by Google review pictures, does it state you have to use the Ringo app to BOOK the free not parking but parking 30 minutes drop off but parking time!! …coz if it is truly 30 minutes free drop off time, then why in the world would you stop, park and then legally use your phone to book that time on a parking app?!?!?

Its all an absolute mess frankly.

James_Poisson

A 'free period of time to drop off passengers' means what it says not travelling time to the drop off point they have basically installed a one point ANPR camera to catch people out to make their scam as cheap to run and as lucrative/easy as possible it is a "mess" but it is a contrived mess.

I saw last year the same idea in use at the now awful Lands End car park in Cornwall where I will never return to ever!

piggypower

Had a second reply from NRW regarding the DPA complaint… would be curious to input for reply…FYI still no willingness to engage in the complaint regarding the non compliance of F1rst Parking and their role in cancelling the PCN…

Dear Mr +*&^%,

 

We note that your correspondence raises both concerns regarding compliance with the parking industry's Code of Practice and allegations that the ANPR system in use at Newborough is non-compliant with the Data Protection Act 2018.

 

The Data Protection Team is only able to consider the data protection aspects of your complaint. For us to investigate your concerns, please provide further details explaining why you believe the ANPR system is non-compliant with the Data Protection Act 2018.  Further guidance on what to include in your complaint can be found here: How to make a data protection complaint to an organisation | ICO

Once we receive this information, we will review the matters you have raised and provide a response.

 

Kind Regards

Eira

 

Eira Owen (pronounced “A” Ra)

Cynghorydd Arbenigol, Rheoli Gwybodaeth a Diogelwch / Specialist Advisor, Information Management and Security   

TGCh / ICT