What would you want from an MSE SOA? 🔢

MSE_Stephen

Hi everyone,

The existing SOA calculator has been a huge help to MSE Forum users for many years. It has supported countless people in setting out their finances clearly, getting practical feedback, and taking the first steps towards sorting things out.

We’re tentatively exploring whether an MSE version could be useful, and we’d really like to know members’ thoughts.

If MSE were to create an SOA calculator, what would you like it to include? What works well in the current one? What could be clearer, easier, or more useful?

This is only an initial question at this stage, not a promise that anything will be built, but we’d be grateful for any feedback.

UPDATE: See our draft version in this post.

Exodi

Definitely! Every time I or someone links the Lemonfool one in the DFW subforum I wonder why MSE doesn't have an on-site tool. It is used every day of every week.

In terms of what I'd want it to include, I've got my own 'Statement of Affairs' tab (it's part of a fancy budgeting spreadsheet) and there were some changes I made from the Lemonfool version.

The first thing I'd suggest is adding options to input values in different periods than monthly (e.g. by a dropdown box by the side). This is as some bills can be paid in different periods than annually and it saves the user needing to get a calculator (e.g. if the user is paid weekly, pays car insurance/water anually, etc).The sheet can still calculate a monthly average and work on monthly amounts.

Another change I'd made is putting expenses under categories, e.g. I've copied mine below.

Housing
Mortgage/Rent
Council Tax
Energy
Water
Home Insurance
Maintenance (this is property maintenance, e.g. boiler service, light bulbs, etc - not featured on Lemonfool)
Cleaning

Entertainment
Internet
Mobile
TV License
Subscriptions
Gym
Activities
Holiday

Consumables
Groceries
Eating Out
Retail (this is one of my biggest spending categories, yet features on no budgeting tools. Presumably it is typically considered as discretionary income. Think of anything bought from Amazon, Argos, etc that can't be characterised elsewhere - like the BBQ utensils I just ordered!).
Gifts
Haircuts
Clothing

Transport
Fuel
Vehicle Tax
Car Insurance
Car Maintenance
Parking
Other (other is anything that doesn't fit in the above, e.g. Dartford Crossing, a dash cam, etc).

Children
Food
Clothing
Toys
Childcare
Other

Miscellaneous
Medical
Union
Pet Insurance
Life Insurance
Bank Account Fee
Other

Obviously it's far from comprehensive and this is just for expenses, there is a similar thing on in another column for savings. Admittedly you could drop all the 'Other's in each category as that is my way of reconciling my statement of affairs against my bank statements. About 1% of my budget sits in 'Other' so no biggie. Having categories also helps me understand and visualise my spend (you could show a nice little pie chart or graph), for example, by far my biggest spend is housing which I can see is about half my total expenditure.

Brie

I think that having a prompt on some items would be helpful. Like if there's more than 1 adult but they split the bills then that can cause confusion for people giving advice as the expenses will look quite low.

Also prompt people to use more than just 1 month's bills/statements as obviously some things fluctuate. We always used 3 months worth to get a good picture of someone's finances.

And a way to put an explanation if something basic is zero - i.e. if nothing for motoring say there's no car or they use their employer's etc.

@Exodi I like your detail but think it may need a bit more - dividing up medical into insurance, prescriptions, dental. Not sure I get "retail" or maybe it needs to be "retail - other"?

MSE_Stephen

Thanks for the comments.

I don't want to make many comments until a lot of responses are in, and I can see what members think, so i won't comment here for a while,

But my initial thoughts are that for what to include, to keep it as un-intimidating as possible it might be good to keep it to the most core items a helper would really need to know - with the ability to manually type in as many "Others" as they want with some helper text suggesting a list of things they could add.

Giving a time-period is a really obvious massive improvement and the first thing we mocked up when thinking about if this was something we should look at doing:

Exodi

Brie

I think that having a prompt on some items would be helpful. Like if there's more than 1 adult but they split the bills then that can cause confusion for people giving advice as the expenses will look quite low.

Such a brilliant idea! As you say, the amount of times you see someone's budget and ask "wow how do you only spend £100 a month on food" before learning there is a household arrangement where their partner pays the groceries and utilities, and the OP pays the rent and takeaways or something. I'm not sure how you'd implement it, but that would be useful to know from the outset. It's always a guess at which bills are split and which aren't at the start, and it's rarely mentioned in the OP or SoA until it is teased out later.

Brie

And a way to put an explanation if something basic is zero - i.e. if nothing for motoring say there's no car or they use their employer's etc.

Also another brilliant idea - maybe a column that says 'Notes'? Could also explain the scenario above, or if utilities are included with rent, for example.

Brie

@Exodi I like your detail but think it may need a bit more - dividing up medical into insurance, prescriptions, dental. Not sure I get "retail" or maybe it needs to be "retail - other"?

Yes certainly a general one would need to be much more comprehensive, mine doesn't include service charges, anything about debt, etc, it is tailored for me.

Sorry 'Retail' needs a bit of explaining. Originally, in an effort to make a true Statement of Affairs, I downloaded a years worth of bank statements, put them in a spreadsheet and began to categorise the spends according to the default template categories. The problem I quickly realised was if you look at a bank statement, a significant amount of the expenditure can not be allocated in a normal statement of affairs. Amazon, Argos, etc pretty much most shops you can think of that aren't supermarkets.

Now you could suggest that that is because this type of spending is discretionary, and the purpose of a Statement of Affairs is only to consider non-discretionary expenses, with retail spending coming out of whatever is left over. But then why do holidays feature in a SoA? I didn't see how it was reasonable for someone hoping to tightly manage their financial affairs to budget for a holiday, but not for spending any money at shops. Retail spending accounts for 5-6% of my total expenses, so it's pretty significant, more so than most of the other lines. The goal was my SoA is to show where every single penny goes, it's been incredibly insightful and we've taken positive action off the back of it.

@MSE_Stephen as you say, it already looks like a massive improvement!

elsien

So my thoughts on the retail - other bit. I can I see the benefit because I have something similar on my own budget.

I suppose I wonder whether people would just welly all sorts of stuff in without explanation and then it would be harder to make a judgement system what is genuinely discretionary or not?
I think I’m querying if it would go from “there is £200 you are spending that is not accounted for in your budget” to having 200 quid showing up in the “other” section with very little explanation.
Maybe the “others” would work with a text box.

otherwise I like exodi’s suggestion of grouping categories together more clearly

RAS

Definitely explicitly add ground rent, service charges and estate charges to housing.

For income, one of the nightmares is monthly bills when paid 4 weekly or fortnightly.

And lots of people have fluctuating income. So, basic, overtime (average over last 6 months?), bonuses over last year. Second income if appropriate?

It'd also be good if people who have any self employed income are prompted to save for tax. HMRC debts are a frequent nightmare here.

in_need_of_direction

maybe a percentage column to be used when outgoings are shared

MSE_Stephen

Hi everyone,

Again, I'm trying not to make too many comments before some replies are in. But a quick steer -

It's been mentioned the difficulty of members having fluctuating amounts for different months.

Having the ability to add those would complicate things beyond the scope of a simple SOA form, but what we could possibly do is have a simple popup helper to work out an average or sum.

Here's a little mockup. Ignore the styling.

RAS

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82024195#Comment_82024195

Great, ran out of time earlier but had intended to suggest that most people would see monthly, and only those reporting other time frames would see supplementary pop-up.

MSE_Stephen

Hi everyone,

Below is a draft SOA output created with sample data in two formats: Forum tables and Markdown.

As an early draft, it may have errors or inconsistencies, but broadly what do you think about:

• the formats (Table or Markdown)
• the categories
• whether anything important is missing, unnecessary, distracting, or too personal
• whether empty or zero rows should be hidden
• whether upcoming changes are useful in this format
• whether you value the naming of provider names, or whether this could be anonymised, for example Credit Card 1 instead of Barclaycard

(sample data in form curtesy of AI)

Draft warning
⚠️ Draft warning: this is an unfinished test version. The calculations, totals and copied output may be incorrect, so do not rely on these numbers.

 

Summary	Amount
Total monthly income	£2,927.00
Total monthly expenditure	£3,495.00
Available for unsecured debt repayments	£-568.00
Unsecured debt repayments	£395.00
Monthly surplus / shortfall	£-963.00
Total assets	£3,650.00
Secured / HP debt	£6,200.00
Unsecured debt	£12,500.00
Net assets	£-15,050.00

 

Household information	Value	Notes
Adults in household	1	Rented home
Children in household	2	Aged 7 and 11
Cars owned	1	-

 

Income	Monthly amount	Notes
Wages / salary / self-employment
Income after tax	£2,100.00	-
Partner’s income after tax	£0.00	-
Non-dependant contributions	£0.00	-
Overtime	£0.00	-
Total wages / salary / self-employment	£2,100.00
Benefits
Benefits	£420.00	-
Partner’s benefits	£0.00	-
Child benefits	£187.00	-
Housing benefits	£0.00	-
Total benefits	£607.00
Pensions
My pension	£0.00	-
Partner’s pension	£0.00	-
Total pensions	£0.00
Other income
Child maintenance	£220.00	-
Total other income	£220.00
Total income	£2,927.00

 

Expenditure	Monthly amount	Notes
Housing costs
Mortgage	£0.00	-
Rent	£975.00	-
Service charges / ground rent / estate charges	£0.00	-
Council tax	£172.00	-
Buildings insurance	£0.00	-
Contents insurance	£16.00	-
Secured loan / HP payments	£0.00	-
Property repairs and maintenance	£25.00	-
Total housing costs	£1,188.00
Food / housekeeping
Groceries, toiletries, cleaning products, etc.	£475.00	-
Lunches / eating out / takeaways	£90.00	-
Retail / other shopping	£65.00	-
Total food / housekeeping	£630.00
Utilities
Electricity	£128.00	-
Gas / heating oil / other heating fuel	£90.00	-
Water	£40.00	-
Mobile	£45.00	-
Landline & Internet	£33.00	-
Total utilities	£336.00
Entertainment / subscriptions
TV subscriptions / streaming / cable	£36.00	-
TV licence	£14.00	-
Gym / clubs / memberships	£22.00	-
Hobbies / days out	£45.00	-
Total entertainment / subscriptions	£117.00
Insurance / protection
Life insurance / critical illness cover	£0.00	-
Health insurance	£0.00	-
Other insurance	£0.00	-
Total insurance / protection	£0.00
Transport
Car finance / HP payment	£210.00	-
Public transport / other travel	£0.00	-
Vehicle tax	£16.00	-
Car insurance	£78.00	-
Petrol or diesel	£190.00	-
MOT / maintenance	£50.00	-
Parking / tolls	£25.00	-
Breakdown cover	£12.00	-
Total transport	£581.00
Children / education
Childcare	£260.00	-
School / education costs	£55.00	-
Children’s activities / pocket money	£50.00	-
Total children / education	£365.00
Pets
Pet insurance / vet bills	£0.00	-
Pet food	£0.00	-
Total pets	£0.00
Medical / care
Dentist / optician	£18.00	-
Medication / prescriptions	£10.00	-
Care / disability costs	£0.00	-
Total medical / care	£28.00
Personal
Clothing / footwear	£70.00	-
Hairdressing / haircuts	£20.00	-
Total personal	£90.00
Irregular / annual costs
Presents / birthdays / Christmas	£45.00	-
Holiday	£25.00	-
Annual bills	£40.00	-
Household repairs / appliance replacement	£35.00	-
Other sinking funds / planned irregular costs	£0.00	-
Total irregular / annual costs	£145.00
Money set aside
Emergency fund contribution	£0.00	-
Other savings / pots	£0.00	-
Total money set aside	£0.00
Other
Bank account fee	£15.00	-
Total other	£15.00
Total expenditure	£3,495.00

 

Secured debts and hire purchase	Debt	Monthly payment	APR	Notes
Mortgage	£0.00	£0.00	-	-
Secured loan	£0.00	£0.00	-	-
Hire purchase	£6,200.00	£210.00	9.90%	Car HP needed for commuting

 

Unsecured debts	Debt	Monthly payment	APR	Notes
Barclaycard	£6,200.00	£185.00	24.90%	Zero percent ended now standard rate
Tesco loan	£4,800.00	£165.00	12.90%	Fixed payment
Overdraft	£1,500.00	£45.00	39.90%	Used every month

 

Assets	Value	Notes
Cash / savings / emergency fund	£150.00	Small emergency buffer
House value	£0.00	-
Shares and bonds	£0.00	-
Car(s)	£3,500.00	Older car needed for work and school run
Other assets	£0.00	-

 

Upcoming changes or one-off issues
Totals note: These items are not included in income, expenditure, debt, asset, surplus, or net-asset totals.
Energy arrears payment plan Type: Debt / arrears issue Amount: £600.00 one-off When: July Certainty: Likely Note: Supplier payment plan not agreed yet. May need to increase monthly bills.

 

Draft warning
⚠️ Draft warning: this is an unfinished test version. The calculations, totals and copied output may be incorrect, so do not rely on these numbers.

Statement of Affairs

Summary

• Total monthly income: £2,927.00
• Total monthly expenditure: £3,495.00
• Available for unsecured debt repayments: £-568.00
• Unsecured debt repayments: £395.00
• Monthly surplus / shortfall: £-963.00
• Total assets: £3,650.00
• Secured / HP debt: £6,200.00
• Unsecured debt: £12,500.00
• Net assets: £-15,050.00

Household information

• Adults in household: 1 — Notes: Rented home
• Children in household: 2 — Notes: Aged 7 and 11
• Cars owned: 1

Income

Wages / salary / self-employment

• Income after tax: £2,100.00 per month
• Partner’s income after tax: £0.00 per month
• Non-dependant contributions: £0.00 per month
• Overtime: £0.00 per month
• Total wages / salary / self-employment: £2,100.00 per month

Benefits

• Benefits: £420.00 per month
• Partner’s benefits: £0.00 per month
• Child benefits: £187.00 per month
• Housing benefits: £0.00 per month
• Total benefits: £607.00 per month

Pensions

• My pension: £0.00 per month
• Partner’s pension: £0.00 per month
• Total pensions: £0.00 per month

Other income

• Child maintenance: £220.00 per month
• Total other income: £220.00 per month
• Total income: £2,927.00 per month

Expenditure

Housing costs

• Mortgage: £0.00 per month
• Rent: £975.00 per month
• Service charges / ground rent / estate charges: £0.00 per month
• Council tax: £172.00 per month
• Buildings insurance: £0.00 per month
• Contents insurance: £16.00 per month
• Secured loan / HP payments: £0.00 per month
• Property repairs and maintenance: £25.00 per month
• Total housing costs: £1,188.00 per month

Food / housekeeping

• Groceries, toiletries, cleaning products, etc.: £475.00 per month
• Lunches / eating out / takeaways: £90.00 per month
• Retail / other shopping: £65.00 per month
• Total food / housekeeping: £630.00 per month

Utilities

• Electricity: £128.00 per month
• Gas / heating oil / other heating fuel: £90.00 per month
• Water: £40.00 per month
• Mobile: £45.00 per month
• Landline & Internet: £33.00 per month
• Total utilities: £336.00 per month

Entertainment / subscriptions

• TV subscriptions / streaming / cable: £36.00 per month
• TV licence: £14.00 per month
• Gym / clubs / memberships: £22.00 per month
• Hobbies / days out: £45.00 per month
• Total entertainment / subscriptions: £117.00 per month

Insurance / protection

• Life insurance / critical illness cover: £0.00 per month
• Health insurance: £0.00 per month
• Other insurance: £0.00 per month
• Total insurance / protection: £0.00 per month

Transport

• Car finance / HP payment: £210.00 per month
• Public transport / other travel: £0.00 per month
• Vehicle tax: £16.00 per month
• Car insurance: £78.00 per month
• Petrol or diesel: £190.00 per month
• MOT / maintenance: £50.00 per month
• Parking / tolls: £25.00 per month
• Breakdown cover: £12.00 per month
• Total transport: £581.00 per month

Children / education

• Childcare: £260.00 per month
• School / education costs: £55.00 per month
• Children’s activities / pocket money: £50.00 per month
• Total children / education: £365.00 per month

Pets

• Pet insurance / vet bills: £0.00 per month
• Pet food: £0.00 per month
• Total pets: £0.00 per month

Medical / care

• Dentist / optician: £18.00 per month
• Medication / prescriptions: £10.00 per month
• Care / disability costs: £0.00 per month
• Total medical / care: £28.00 per month

Personal

• Clothing / footwear: £70.00 per month
• Hairdressing / haircuts: £20.00 per month
• Total personal: £90.00 per month

Irregular / annual costs

• Presents / birthdays / Christmas: £45.00 per month
• Holiday: £25.00 per month
• Annual bills: £40.00 per month
• Household repairs / appliance replacement: £35.00 per month
• Other sinking funds / planned irregular costs: £0.00 per month
• Total irregular / annual costs: £145.00 per month

Money set aside

• Emergency fund contribution: £0.00 per month
• Other savings / pots: £0.00 per month
• Total money set aside: £0.00 per month

Other

• Bank account fee: £15.00 per month
• Total other: £15.00 per month
• Total expenditure: £3,495.00 per month

Secured debts and hire purchase

• Mortgage — Debt: £0.00; Monthly payment: £0.00; APR: -
• Secured loan — Debt: £0.00; Monthly payment: £0.00; APR: -
• Hire purchase — Debt: £6,200.00; Monthly payment: £210.00; APR: 9.90% — Notes: Car HP needed for commuting

Unsecured debts

• Barclaycard — Debt: £6,200.00; Monthly payment: £185.00; APR: 24.90% — Notes: Zero percent ended now standard rate
• Tesco loan — Debt: £4,800.00; Monthly payment: £165.00; APR: 12.90% — Notes: Fixed payment
• Overdraft — Debt: £1,500.00; Monthly payment: £45.00; APR: 39.90% — Notes: Used every month

Assets

• Cash / savings / emergency fund: £150.00 — Notes: Small emergency buffer
• House value: £0.00
• Shares and bonds: £0.00
• Car(s): £3,500.00 — Notes: Older car needed for work and school run
• Other assets: £0.00

Upcoming changes or one-off issues

These items are not included in the income, expenditure, debt, asset, surplus, or net-asset totals above.

• Energy arrears payment plan
  • Type: Debt / arrears issue
  • Amount: £600.00 one-off
  • When: July
  • Certainty: Likely
  • Notes: Supplier payment plan not agreed yet. May need to increase monthly bills.

⚠️ Draft warning: this is an unfinished test version. The calculations, totals and copied output may be incorrect, so do not rely on these numbers.