Battery only install

born_again

For now going for the cheaper option, as solar is out of our price range.

Average usage is around 6kWh a day peak time. I know payback is not as good as solar (not that I'm worried about that), but needs must & will make a nice saving a month on bill, charging overnight on IOG, which we are on with 2 EV's & not wanting battery to charge them.

Hs anyone had Fox EVO 10 Battery installed & how did you find it & software (little in the way of anything on u-tube about them)

Been quoted sub £5K for install by Octopus.

Or are there any other recommendations for batteries & suppliers.

blanched_jelly

Sounds like a decent plan for now, especially if you’re already on IOG. I have Fox and it's good value - the app isn’t as amazing but it works. Under £5k from Octopus sounds pretty solid tbh.

Where abouts in the country are you? Worth getting quotes from a few local installers too as Octopus sometimes sub out to them anyway.

born_again

Yorks.

Awaiting a local co to respond to see if they will do a battery install only.

Screwdriva

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6665135/battery-only-install

Wouldn't recommend Fox to anyone for any reason. Read some of the comments from owners on Trustpilot - you'll see that aftersales, warranty, software, app etc. are all rubbish.

If you can stretch to just under £7K, a Tesla PW3 offers 13.5kW storage (35% more than Fox), and is (arguably) the best battery inverter sold in the UK. What's more, once you save up for panels, the built in inverter can be programmed by any Tesla installer to match the number of panels you purchase - no separate inverter needed.

blanched_jelly

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81971850#Comment_81971850

I think that’s a bit of a blanket take tbh.

If you’re comparing Trustpilot, Fox ESS UK (not the generic fox-ess.com page) actually has a pretty solid score: https://www.trustpilot.com/review/fox-ess.uk

By comparison, Tesla doesn’t really have a proper UK Trustpilot for its energy products where lots of customers are leaving feedback. The closest page people seem to use is: https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/teslaenergy.solar

If you read through those GB reviews, the overall tone isn’t great - plenty of complaints about communication, support, and install issues… the same sort of things people criticise Fox for.

Loads of installers are fitting Fox systems now and they’re pretty mainstream at this point and not really comparable to smaller players like GivEnergy in terms of scale or backing (Fox are backed by Tsingshan Group, which is huge)

I know they’re not perfect, but for a sub-£5k install for ~10kWh usable capacity, Fox is very competitive value-wise. A Powerwall is a great bit of kit, but you’re paying a big premium for the ecosystem and brand - and the real-world support experience doesn’t always match the marketing.

So I wouldn’t write Fox off entirely - plenty of people (myself included) are running them happily, and plenty of people who can't afford PW3 money shouldn't blanket disregard them.

Screwdriva

"I know they’re not perfect, but for a sub-£5k install for 10kWh usable capacity, Fox is very competitive value-wise. A Powerwall is a great bit of kit, but you’re paying a big premium for the ecosystem and brand - and the real-world support experience doesn’t always match the marketing."

Appreciate every purchasing decision is personal, but on a per kW basis, the PW3 is comparable to the cost of the Fox EVO 10 battery.

On Cost: 95% DoD = 9.73kW for the Fox battery vs. 13.5kW (~39% greater storage capacity for a ~39% or ~£2K cost premium). Said another way, you are paying ~40% more but you're getting ~40% more capacity.

On Warranty: Real world support of Tesla is best in class. They are the only brand to offer a 10 year unit replacement warranty - there are plenty of examples of Tesla replacing PW2 units with PW3 units. In my own experience across hundreds of installations, no brand comes close to Tesla's aftersales support. The next tier down is Enphase/ SolarEdge and they are nowhere close. That said, no brand is perfect.

There are other factors as well:

• Tesla cold weather performance > Fox cold weather performance
• Tesla App > Fox App
• Tesla Software > Fox Software
• PW3 is IP 67 rated > Fox is IP 66 rated
• PW3 has a built in inverter (upto 11.04kWh) > Fox requires an external inverter

A recent addition to this list could be long term viability of the brand. Following a giant like GivEnergy's collapse, I would think twice about investing in a brand that lacks a long term reputation and has roots to the Far East. I would pay close attention to Trustpilot/ Google reviews for every brand, in addition to feedback on forums like these.

blanched_jelly

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81971979#Comment_81971979

You’re right that a Tesla gives ~40% more capacity for ~40% more cost, but that only really matters if that extra capacity is actually used. For ~6kWh/day usage, a ~10kWh usable system from Fox ESS is already enough to cover the overnight to daytime shift, so the additional capacity doesn’t necessarily translate into extra savings.

On support, I’m not sure it’s fair to call Tesla clearly “best in class” based on their feedback - there are plenty of mixed reviews around installs and aftercare, same as most brands. Agree Tesla probably wins on app and integration, and the built-in inverter is a real advantage if/when solar is added. But for a battery-only setup today, those are more “nice to have"'s than things that materially change the outcome.

On the long-term viability point - even if you take GivEnergy as a warning, I’m not sure “Far East roots” is a reliable differentiator given how much of the global battery supply chain sits in China and wider Asia - including for Tesla. Plus GivEnergy was nowhere near backed to the same degree as Fox is.

If the goal is a cost-efficient way to shift cheap overnight energy now, a Fox-type system does the job.

Overall though, perhaps one isn't objectively better - just that they’re optimised for slightly different priorities.

Martyn1981

Might be a role where plug-n-play can help, assuming it gets approved this year.

Won't give you big power, as limited to 800W feed in to house grid, but a smallish battery (4kWh(ish)) and 2kWp of PV for ~£1,600 might do. Or scale up the batts at more cost.

And you can draw 1,050W, 1,200W or even 2,300W from the AC out sockets, depending on the battery combination chosen.

Screwdriva

"You’re right that a Tesla gives ~40% more capacity for ~40% more cost, but that only really matters if that extra capacity is actually used. For ~6kWh/day usage, a ~10kWh usable system from Fox ESS is already enough to cover the overnight to daytime shift, so the additional capacity doesn’t necessarily translate into extra savings."

On the contrary, when time of use tariffs like Intelligent Flux are factored into the equation, that additional capacity literally does translate to extra £. Perhaps more relevant, as we electrify heating and transportation, the 40% additional capacity provides a greater degree of flexibility to the homeowner, for decisions that may occur years down the road.

"On support, I’m not sure it’s fair to call Tesla clearly “best in class” based on their feedback - there are plenty of mixed reviews around installs and aftercare, same as most brands. Agree Tesla probably wins on app and integration, and the built-in inverter is a real advantage if/ when solar is added. But for a battery-only setup today, those are more “nice to have"'s than things that materially change the outcome."

Many like me describe Tesla "Best in Class" because they are the only battery inverter brand to offer a unit replacement warranty. No pro-rated compensation offer (read: pittance pay), no get of jail warranty clauses linking usage to coverage. They have/ will show up, take the old unit off the wall and replace it with a new one, even in the final year of the warranty.

On what you describe as "Nice to Have's", I like to share the pros/ cons for all options and leave the decision on what's important to the property owner. You may consider Tesla's Stormwatch as nice to have, but a homeowner who suffers from regular blackouts may view it as indispensable. Many do. The only pro you have shared is that the Fox battery is smaller and, in so, cheaper.

On the upfront cost of a battery, given the cost involved, I recommend delaying the battery purchase decision vs. compromising it - Fox is a compromise, not a comparable.

born_again

Personally I do not take any heed of anything on trustpilot. I've seen the likes of First Direct get 1 star, yet at the same time had the title of Most recommended bank. As well as other highly recommended companies🤷‍♀️

Once in a day they were good, now it's no better than many social media groups.

Reed_Richards

Maybe you should wait until bidirectional EV charging becomes available? Does your home use a lot of power when neither of your 2 EVs is there?