Rail Travel Irregularity Settlement Offer

ElwoodBlues

Not sure if this is the best place to ask for advice on this. I received a letter from GWR headed Travel irregularity settlement offer. It's addressed to the parent/guardian of my daughter. She's 16 and sometimes uses the train to get to college. She did tell me about an incident on the train and then just over a week later I received this letter.

They're saying that she attempted to travel without a valid ticket, and making a settlement offer of £25. She did attempt to buy a ticket on their app before boarding the train, but the phone signal at the (rural) station is poor, and she hadn't managed to complete the process before the train arrived. She then finished the ticket purchase whilst on the train. The ticket inspector came to her as she was finishing the purchase. She offered him the on screen QR code, which he accepted and scanned as normal. But then he requested her personal details, which she obviously gave, but didn't really understand why.

I know you're supposed to buy the train ticket before boarding, but in reality that's not always possible, but it seems harsh to fine a passenger who's bought the ticket whilst on board. Is there any point in appealing this? Also, why have they written to me asking for payment and not my daughter? She is 16 and has to pay adult fares (she can't get any railcard discounts because she doesn't have a passport, which seems ludicrous, but that's another matter), but am I legally liable for this?

cc123mm456

I suggest you could try posting in the forum below. They are very knowledgeable about these kind of issues.

Read the pinned "Please read before posting in Disputes & Prosecutions".

https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/disputes-prosecutions.152/

ElwoodBlues

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81956142#Comment_81956142

I've tried, but can't seem to register for that site. I never receive the activation emails (just a regular gmail address).

cc123mm456

Sorry to here that. It is a frequently used forum, so I can't say what is the problem. You could try the "Contact us" link at the bottom of the page to ask for assistance with registering.

With regard to your actual question, I didn't really want to comment with my very limited knowledge. This is why I suggested the Railforums site, for their expertise.

I've seen comments somewhere that mobile e-tickets are required to be purchased at least 10 minutes before travel, and if that's not possible, the ticket machine must be used, if one exists at the station. That's about as much as my knowledge on the subject.

martindow

I also would recommend getting advice from that forum. You can read through some posts on there without being registered and you will see that the powers of railway companies are extensive. Court action can lead to a criminal prosecution - it is much more serious than a normal moneyclaim.

I would be tempted to accept the offer and settle this for the sake of £25. And tell your daughter to be more careful in the future. There is no need for her to be buying tickets at the last minute. Is she telling you the entire story do you think? At that age I might have been tempted to only buy a ticket when I saw the inspector approaching …

cc123mm456

I'm prepared to assume it was an entirely innocent mistake by your daughter.

I was once nearly caught out by this myself. I was on the platform, having rushed to get there, watching the train approach, and desperately trying to get the mobile app to work. It's amazing how difficult it is when there is time pressure. Fortunately I spotted a ticket machine, used that and just got a ticket purchased in time. Back then I didn't know about the 10 minute rule. I heard about it afterwards.

I can see why the rule applies. Those that are trying to work the system could have the mobile app set up such that it's on the final confirmation page, then only when they see a ticket inspector, hit the purchase button.

I agree that, for the sake of £25, I would pay up, and put it down to a valuable life lesson.

Hopefully your post will also help others with raising awareness of the rule.

t0rt0ise

Your daughter should pay it. I expect you'll give her time to pay but a good lesson learnt to follow the rules.

ElwoodBlues

Thanks. We do regularly buy our tickets on the train, because our local station has not ticket facilities. Just that she made the reverse journey from a station that does have a ticket office. So it is a bit confusing what's acceptable and what isn't. And no, I can't be sure she's telling me the full story, however, it is genuinely a 3.5 minute train journey and she had bought a ticket on the app and had it scanned by the ticket inspector, and then he still had time to take her details before the train arrived at her stop. In my experience it takes longer than that to buy tickets on their app.

Also, the letter demanding payment is addressed to me ("The parent/guardian of…"). Who's legally responsible to sort it out, me or my daughter?

cc123mm456

I'm not commenting as an expert in this, because I'm really not.

However, as mentioned in the previous post be martindow, it does seem that the rail companies do have powers backed up by law, and you would think that they will know the correct approach.

cc123mm456

I can't remember the details, but there was some controversy in the news a while ago, about some rail companies going straight to court on a first offense, for fairly innocent mistakes like using a ticket at the wrong time. That was criticized and some court judgements were reversed, due to the heavy handed approach.

This could explain why the company has offered a settlement offer as a first step. They still have the legal options available, but they need to show they have acted reasonably before it gets to that.

If you want to, you could contact them and try to negotiate. My feeling is it probably wouldn't be worthwhile.