Non payment of council tax: Questions.

SpikeyKitten

That's exactly it.

To make things even more complicated. I was briefly claiming UC. I was previously in receipt of Working Tax Credits which worked well for me. Then I got a letter saying I'd be migrated to UC, but not to worry as I'd get a year's grace from the Assumed Minimum Income Floor. Then about a month into my claim, about ten months ago, my claim was closed down as I'd missed something in my journal. I posted a thread about that too at the time.

I appealed, but that is still ongoing, waiting on a tribunal hearing. And I've been struggling ever since on my self-employed earnings. I've managed to make ends meet but my credit-card debt is just growing whilst this gets sorted either way. Even if the appeal hearing finds in my favour, I've no doubt they'll renege on the 'twelve month grace' thing and will likely say that the year is up.

sheramber

Have you seen your GP about your mental health problems?

Do they prevent you working or is it just the lack of available work?

Have you considered getting a job, even a part time one to boost your income?

SpikeyKitten

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81902547#Comment_81902547

Yes,

Multiple times. Upshot is that I keep getting misdiagnosed, or whatever they give me doesn't work or makes things worse. I've been diagnosed with a new "disorder" now and am in a lengthy queue for treatment.

I have had probably hundreds of jobs in my life. Even if I get a job, it won't last (see above). I was on incapacity benefits for many years before finding self-employment which has been fantastic for me. I am the proverbial 'square peg' expected to fit into the round hole. And the fact is, I can't do it. So it's self-employment, scraping a living with the small ray of hope that things will get better, or full-time benefits.

SpikeyKitten

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81902147#Comment_81902147

Thanks.

Do you have a link to the source your using regarding baillifs being able to take my work van please? I'm hearing conflicting views on this, but mostly heresy so would be good to have a reliable source.

Regarding the prison part: once you're released, is the debt still there? I mean, if you've been sent to prison for non-payment of a bill, you're unlikely to have the cash to pay it once you're released. So what happens then? If it's a case of straight back to prison, then that's effectively a whole-life order!

sourcrates

Yes of course the debt remains to be paid, even if you serve time for non payment, it does not go away.

Better to default on your credit card debt than your council tax.

Bailiffs can take any asset that belongs to the debtor, they can take any vehicle you own outright, however if it is on finance will they leave it alone, a work van is not classed as a tool, which means it does not have the same protections as essential tools needed for work.

They may not bother seizing it if its value is below £1350 as its would not be worth taking it to auction.

SpikeyKitten

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81902687#Comment_81902687

Thanks.

I'm still confused. Though I don't expect you to know the answer. I suppose what I'm trying to work out is how many times can you be given a prison sentence for the same offence. If you 'do' three months. And then come out and you still can't pay. Another three months? There's only twelve months in the year, and then you're into the next year's council tax bill. Though I suppose if you've spent the last year in prison then there'll be no bill to pay, Might be wrong on that. Wouldn't surprise me if prisoners were expected to pay council tax. You say "the debt never goes away" so unless you have the money to pay then they either lock you up punitively for life, or you die, and it still doesn't get paid. Assuming you leave no estate.

I could accept three months of the year in prison. After all, I haven't done anything wrong in my mind so I wouldn't feel guilty. It'd be like going to prison for being gay. And I don't have children to consider. Not ideal, but those are the rules.

Regarding the van thing: yeah, it's an old banger worth £800 on a good day so I might be ok there. I suppose the sensible thing to do would be to not store my things in it so should the worst happen I'm not letting my immediate clients down. Or get rid of it entirely and hire one for every job.

SpikeyKitten

To use a rubbish analogy:

If you get ten years for manslaughter. When you are released. They don't say: "the person you killed is still dead so another ten years for you!" And so on and so on until you die. So why is council tax different? It may well be the case that you still owe the money, but can they just keep hitting you with three months after three months? Doesn't seem likely. They're not even giving you any time to attempt to earn the money to pay it back. Probably a question for the Blackbelt Barrister ;)

sourcrates

Council tax is a civil debt, non payment of it is not a criminal offence, its a civil matter.

It can only lead to imprisonment if:

1. The individual has the means to pay but has wilfully refused to do so.
2. There is clear evidence of deliberate non-payment rather than financial hardship.

Less than 60 people a year are imprisoned for non payment, most of them hadn't paid as they disagreed with the system, if your reason for non payment is because of hardship, its unlikely you will be imprisoned, but the court would require some kind of payment plan.

Lots of information here:

Is Not Paying Council Tax a Criminal Offence in the UK?