How is ill health efficiency worked out in CSPS (Nuvos/Alpha) ?

pensionpickle

I have a link to the various CSPS guidance Notes but I am struggling to see how to work out my reckonable service from the guidance notes.

Edit - removed identifying detail

Brie

Can't give any specifics for your scheme but the couple of successful cases of IHR I've seen took about 3 years to be resolved. Lots of meetings, lots of medical evidence. Your doctor will need to say that whatever the condition is is permanent which will be questioned extensively by their assortment of doctors.

edited to add - I'm not trying to make you not consider making a claim, just warning that it will likely be a long battle as scheme trustees don't like making these commitments. Sorry if I sounded overly blunt.

Yorkie1

Hopefully I've understood your query, apologies if not:

You say you have 17 years' service - for the sake of simplicity, I'll make my reply assume that it's 17 years exactly on 31 March 2026.

Therefore start of service = 1 April 2009.

1 April 2009 - 31 March 2015 = Nuvos. Total 7 years. Normal retirement age is 65.

1 April 2015 - 31 March 2022 = McCloud remedy period where, when you take your (first) pension, you decide whether it falls in Nuvos or Alpha. 7 years

1 April 2022 = 31 March 2026 = Alpha. Total 4 years, although Reckonable Service is not relevant to Alpha. Normal retirement age is State pension (probably 67 for you).

Your service at 0.6 is only relevant to your reckonable service calculation in Nuvos. Theefore your reckonable service would be either 7 * 0.6 ( = 1533 days, or 4 years and 73 days) if you counted the middle dates as Alpha, or 14 * 0.6 ( = 3066 days, or 8 years and 146 days) if you counted the middle dates in Nuvos.

If you were absent on sick leave during the Nuvos time frame, and being paid, whether at full rate or half rate, I believe that service counts towards your reckonable service as it would do if you were at work. I don't think you get a reduced rate of reckonable service when being paid at half rate, but paging @hugheskevi in case he knows any different. If you were absent on unpaid sick leave during the Nuvos timeframe (i.e. after you'd used up the maximum amount of paid sick leave in any 12 months or 3 years), then that absence doesn't count towards reckonable service. For example, if you had two years' sick leave in 2010 and 2011, you'd only have 5 years' reckonable service instead of the 7 years.

For the Alpha calculation, this is not based on reckonable service in the same way. Basically, your actual salary is used to calculate how much you contribute, and how much you pension you get back. Therefore, the fact you were working 0.6 just means you put less into the pension than a person on a full time salary would.

I suspect that if you were dismissed on the grounds of ill health efficiency / capability then there's no impact on your pension. Reckonable service is not impacted because that ended at 2015 or 2022 (depending on whether you count the McCloud period in Nuvos or Alpha). You are still eligible to take your pension at the appropriate age (or if you take it early, reduced for it being paid for longer).

If you successfully get Ill Heath Retirement, then I assume you get the pension(s) early, but I don't really understand the summary or all the detail.

pensionpickle

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81881912#Comment_81881912

thanks very much, i appreciate the comments and don't think you sound too blunt.

pensionpickle

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81882018#Comment_81882018

thanks also - that's really useful especially the McLeod years, without access to the portal at the moment I'm finding it hard to pin down the facts.

Yorkie1

Ah, that's a bit beyond my knowledge, sorry!

sidev93

Here is a link showing how the efficiency compensation is calculated. I presume it is still valid

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20250805042914/https://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/employers/employer-pension-notices/epn584-efficiency-compensation/

Marcon

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81881912#Comment_81881912

I've seen dozens of ill health retirements and 3 years is an exceptionally long time. I've never seen one get anywhere close to that.

It isn't usually the 'your doctor v their doctor battle' you've painted. If the medical evidence supports the definition of 'ill health' in the scheme rules (which is often more nuanced than a simple 'it's permanent'), and that evidence is provided by the party specified in the rules (which could be 'any medical practitioner' or 'our occupational health' or whatever), then what the trustees do or don't 'like' is irrelevant. It's the employer/scheme sponsor who foots the bill.

And of course the Civil Service scheme doesn't have trustees…

pensionpickle

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81882140#Comment_81882140

thanks for that, much appreciated, it seems quite hidden away! It all looks quite complex, i think the references to reckonable service and qualifying service are what are confusing me as I don't know how that is calculated - i think one for HR to give me more idea on perhaps.

Brie

@Macron Perhaps it's just the private work schemes with trustees that are so fussy or the type of permanent ill health that was being discussed. Last one I saw was a mid 20s woman who was passed back and forth between the various medicals before finally being granted IHR. In the 4+ years that I was supposedly working with her she was in the office twice while this was being sorted, and that was just for meetings about her situation rather than her actually doing any work. It was a relief to the department when she was finally "retired" as it meant that a replacement could be hired to do the work.