DWP paid deceased pension into joint acount - advice needed

RAWS

I'm caring for an elderly, recently widowed relative. DWP have continued paying her husbands pension into their joint account despite being informed of the death. They're now asking for over £600 back which would wipe out a large chunk of her account as she doesn't have much. This lady is struggling with confusion and memory loss and thinks the money is hers and gets very distressed when I try to explain the situation with her. I'm trying to help her and can see lots of information about similar situations but cannot clarify the law here. I'm going to phone the dwp with her but want to know as much as possible beforehand. Can anyone advise on this?

Marcon

RAWS said:

I'm caring for an elderly, recently widowed relative. DWP have continued paying her husbands pension into their joint account despite being informed of the death. They're now asking for over £600 back which would wipe out a large chunk of her account as she doesn't have much. This lady is struggling with confusion and memory loss and thinks the money is hers and gets very distressed when I try to explain the situation with her. I'm trying to help her and can see lots of information about similar situations but cannot clarify the law here. I'm going to phone the dwp with her but want to know as much as possible beforehand. Can anyone advise on this?

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/01/dwp-has--no-legal-power--to-force-you-to-repay-pension-or-benefi/?_gl=1*1m15pxn*FPAU*MTg2Mzk4ODA4LjE3NjU4OTEyMTc.*_ga*MjQyNzg1MzQyLjE3MTE2MjQ2ODM.*_ga_X74CWQS9F0*czE3NjkxNjczNzAkbzQkZzEkdDE3NjkxNjc0MTEkajE5JGwwJGg1ODg4MjM3NTE.

RAWS

Thank you for this link. I have read it but perhaps I'm missing something. I believe the law may be different if the money is paid into a joint account and the other account owner is still living. This is one of the things I need clarification on.

sheramber

RAWS said:

Thank you for this link. I have read it but perhaps I'm missing something. I believe the law may be different if the money is paid into a joint account and the other account owner is still living. This is one of the things I need clarification on.

From the link above

The DWP also added that it would only send out such a letter demanding payment once, which it confirmed to MSE.

Mr Lewis wrote: "If you are not happy doing that then write back asking what statutory power the DWP is relying on to recover the money.

elsien

If she’s struggling with confusion and memory loss she needs to plan ahead with regards to finances to make sure she has the correct legal mechanisms in place in the future so that someone else can step in if they need to. If she fails the security questions they will simply end the call. 
Does she have a power-of-attorney in place?
 

elsien

Does this help? It doesn’t seem to make any difference whether there is a joint account or not as far as I can tell. 

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2024-12-10/19135

Where have you had the information from about the joint account situation being different?

RAWS

elsien said:

If she’s struggling with confusion and memory loss she needs to plan ahead with regards to finances to make sure she has the correct legal mechanisms in place in the future so that someone else can step in if they need to. If she fails the security questions they will simply end the call. 
Does she have a power-of-attorney in place?
 

No she doesn't yet. Her family have just persuaded her to allow this after realising how difficult she's finding everything. I'll suggest they speed this up.

RAWS

elsien said:

Does this help? It doesn’t seem to make any difference whether there is a joint account or not as far as I can tell. 

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2024-12-10/19135

Where have you had the information from about the joint account situation being different?

Yes it does help, thank you.

I've been googling lots so not sure of all the sites I used now but here's an example... 
https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/comments/1m20ugm/father_has_passed_away_dwp_coming_after_one_weeks/
Also paste dwp overpayment into deceased joint account' and you'll get the advice that it has to be repaid.

Granted, these are not the best sources of correct info which is why I'm now looking for more sensible sources of information ie MSE Forum and similar. 

RAWS

Ok, so also just been told that she will get a very small payout (under £3000) from a life insurance policy he had. I guess that's part of his estate so they can claim it from there?

RAWS

Just got this from a lawyer on Just Answer:

As a rule, the DWP is entitled to recover a state pension overpayment made after the date of death, even where the death was reported, and it is treated as a recoverable debt from the person who received it.

They cannot simply “take” life insurance proceeds as a matter of course, but if the policy pays out to her and she holds the money, the DWP can still pursue repayment from her because debts are paid from whatever funds she has available, and that can include using part of the insurance payout if she chooses to settle the debt.

a The practical route here is to contact DWP Debt Management immediately, explain she reported the death and that repayment in one go is not affordable, and ask for an affordable instalment plan and for recovery not to be taken by deductions from her ongoing benefits without an agreed arrangement, especially given she is on pension and other support.

molerat

Have you not read the link posted by Marcon ?

Mr Lewis wrote: "If you are not happy doing that then write back asking what statutory power the DWP is relying on to recover the money. It will then respond to say it has no power. You can then confidently ignore the payment demand. The DWP also cannot use common law to recover the debt."

A DWP spokesperson told us: "There is no legal obligation to repay a debt of this type, but we recognise some people will be willing to repay money to which there was no entitlement. We provide full contact details and encourage anyone with concerns to call us."

In a Supreme Court ruling in December 2010, the court also held that common law (unwritten laws based on legal precedents set by courts) could not be used to recover money paid by official error.