Scottish Widows - Mercer master Trust Works Pension Question

horace972897

Hi

I want to transfer out of my Scottish Widows / Mercer Master Trust Adminstered Works Pension to iWeb/Scottish Widows.SIPP.

However i'm concerned about the timing of the fund sales - does anyone have any experience with selling Mercer funds adminstered by Scottish Widows? What was the timescales involved, as in how long after requesting the fund switch/sale did the actual transaction take place? I tried calling their helpline and they were very vague, talking about up to a week and recomending it was placed before 9:30 at one point and would have to wait if fund carges were being sorted (sale to pay fees). Seems very worrying... When i sold some funds in my SIPP i had clear info on cut off times etc.

I was planning to sell all my Mercer funds and switch into a money market fund, while i wait for the transfer to occur, as it sounds like these can take some time. Hopefully money market funds will be less volatile while i wait. But if the sale into the money market funds can take days i'm not sure how well my nerves can take not knowing if the market could drop in the long timesscale between pressing the button to sell and the sale happening.

Anyone have experience of this?

Thanks

QrizB

Traditional pension providers aren't set up like day trading platforms. Selling one funs and buying another can take days.

horace972897 said:

... i'm not sure how well my nerves can take not knowing if the market could drop in the long timesscale between pressing the button to sell and the sale happening.

What adverse consequences do you envision if this drop happens?

If the market drops, it'll drop regardless of whether you're selling your investments or not.

horace972897

QrizB said:

Traditional pension providers aren't set up like day trading platforms. Selling one funs and buying another can take days.

horace972897 said:

... i'm not sure how well my nerves can take not knowing if the market could drop in the long timesscale between pressing the button to sell and the sale happening.

What adverse consequences do you envision if this drop happens?

If the market drops, it'll drop regardless of whether you're selling your investments or not.

The adverse consequence is that by selling and moving to cash/money market fund i will have crystalised the loss - can't transfer in speccie where i'm ok with the drop and i will just hold and wait for it to return again

e.g. Fund value £100 in shares - sell to cash but market drops by 50% in the days it takes to happen and then buy shares when in the SIPP - value now £50

QrizB

horace972897 said:

QrizB said:

Traditional pension providers aren't set up like day trading platforms. Selling one funs and buying another can take days.

horace972897 said:

... i'm not sure how well my nerves can take not knowing if the market could drop in the long timesscale between pressing the button to sell and the sale happening.

What adverse consequences do you envision if this drop happens?

If the market drops, it'll drop regardless of whether you're selling your investments or not.

The adverse consequence is that by selling and moving to cash/money market fund i will have crystalised the loss - can't transfer in speccie where i'm ok with the drop and i will just hold and wait for it to return again

e.g. Fund value £100 in shares - sell to cash but market drops by 50% in the days it takes to happen and then buy shares when in the SIPP - value now £50

Butif you don't sell and stay where you are, it'll still fall by 50%.

And if you're moving to a similar fund at your destination, that too will have dropped 50% so you'll still buy the same amount (number of units) of it.

horace972897

QrizB said:

horace972897 said:

QrizB said:

Traditional pension providers aren't set up like day trading platforms. Selling one funs and buying another can take days.

horace972897 said:

... i'm not sure how well my nerves can take not knowing if the market could drop in the long timesscale between pressing the button to sell and the sale happening.

What adverse consequences do you envision if this drop happens?

If the market drops, it'll drop regardless of whether you're selling your investments or not.

The adverse consequence is that by selling and moving to cash/money market fund i will have crystalised the loss - can't transfer in speccie where i'm ok with the drop and i will just hold and wait for it to return again

e.g. Fund value £100 in shares - sell to cash but market drops by 50% in the days it takes to happen and then buy shares when in the SIPP - value now £50

Butif you don't sell and stay where you are, it'll still fall by 50%.

And if you're moving to a similar fund at your destination, that too will have dropped 50% so you'll still buy the same amount (number of units) of it.

If this was all completed in a timely manner you are correct but there is talk of weeks of time between the sales into cash and the transfer to the other provider.

Shimrod

horace972897 said:

QrizB said:

horace972897 said:

QrizB said:

Traditional pension providers aren't set up like day trading platforms. Selling one funs and buying another can take days.

horace972897 said:

... i'm not sure how well my nerves can take not knowing if the market could drop in the long timesscale between pressing the button to sell and the sale happening.

What adverse consequences do you envision if this drop happens?

If the market drops, it'll drop regardless of whether you're selling your investments or not.

The adverse consequence is that by selling and moving to cash/money market fund i will have crystalised the loss - can't transfer in speccie where i'm ok with the drop and i will just hold and wait for it to return again

e.g. Fund value £100 in shares - sell to cash but market drops by 50% in the days it takes to happen and then buy shares when in the SIPP - value now £50

Butif you don't sell and stay where you are, it'll still fall by 50%.

And if you're moving to a similar fund at your destination, that too will have dropped 50% so you'll still buy the same amount (number of units) of it.

If this was all completed in a timely manner you are correct but there is talk of weeks of time between the sales into cash and the transfer to the other provider.

Your experience may be different to mine, but last year we are I transferred a Scottish Widows pension to ii and it was done in five (working) days from when I submitted the forms. That pension was not part of a master trust though.

horace972897

Shimrod said:

horace972897 said:

QrizB said:

horace972897 said:

QrizB said:

Traditional pension providers aren't set up like day trading platforms. Selling one funs and buying another can take days.

horace972897 said:

... i'm not sure how well my nerves can take not knowing if the market could drop in the long timesscale between pressing the button to sell and the sale happening.

What adverse consequences do you envision if this drop happens?

If the market drops, it'll drop regardless of whether you're selling your investments or not.

The adverse consequence is that by selling and moving to cash/money market fund i will have crystalised the loss - can't transfer in speccie where i'm ok with the drop and i will just hold and wait for it to return again

e.g. Fund value £100 in shares - sell to cash but market drops by 50% in the days it takes to happen and then buy shares when in the SIPP - value now £50

Butif you don't sell and stay where you are, it'll still fall by 50%.

And if you're moving to a similar fund at your destination, that too will have dropped 50% so you'll still buy the same amount (number of units) of it.

If this was all completed in a timely manner you are correct but there is talk of weeks of time between the sales into cash and the transfer to the other provider.

Your experience may be different to mine, but last year we are I transferred a Scottish Widows pension to ii and it was done in five (working) days from when I submitted the forms. That pension was not part of a master trust though.

Was that selling and transferring in cash or in speccie?

dunstonh

However i'm concerned about the timing of the fund sales - does anyone have any experience with selling Mercer funds adminstered by Scottish Widows? What was the timescales involved, as in how long after requesting the fund switch/sale did the actual transaction take place?

Scottish Widows are relatively quick and they pre-fund.  However, with a professional administrator doing the work rather than Scottish Widows, it will be slower.

I was planning to sell all my Mercer funds and switch into a money market fund, while i wait for the transfer to occur, as it sounds like these can take some time.

That wil not speed anything up and will only increase your time out of the market.

If this was all completed in a timely manner you are correct but there is talk of weeks of time between the sales into cash and the transfer to the other provider.

Weeks out of the market is unlikely.    days is closer to the mark.  However when the process gets starts is the issue.  Not so much with SW but the administrator.  Mercer are not known for speed.    And they are prone to being a bit fussy on the anti-scam measures.  That really depends on how much of the work Mercer are contracted to do compared to SW.  

Was that selling and transferring in cash or in speccie?

You cannot transfer inspecie unless it is on the SW platform (which you say it isnt as the platform cannot have a professional administrator which means it has to be using insured pension funds).

Shimrod

horace972897 said:

Shimrod said:

horace972897 said:

QrizB said:

horace972897 said:

QrizB said:

Traditional pension providers aren't set up like day trading platforms. Selling one funs and buying another can take days.

horace972897 said:

... i'm not sure how well my nerves can take not knowing if the market could drop in the long timesscale between pressing the button to sell and the sale happening.

What adverse consequences do you envision if this drop happens?

If the market drops, it'll drop regardless of whether you're selling your investments or not.

The adverse consequence is that by selling and moving to cash/money market fund i will have crystalised the loss - can't transfer in speccie where i'm ok with the drop and i will just hold and wait for it to return again

e.g. Fund value £100 in shares - sell to cash but market drops by 50% in the days it takes to happen and then buy shares when in the SIPP - value now £50

Butif you don't sell and stay where you are, it'll still fall by 50%.

And if you're moving to a similar fund at your destination, that too will have dropped 50% so you'll still buy the same amount (number of units) of it.

If this was all completed in a timely manner you are correct but there is talk of weeks of time between the sales into cash and the transfer to the other provider.

Your experience may be different to mine, but last year we are I transferred a Scottish Widows pension to ii and it was done in five (working) days from when I submitted the forms. That pension was not part of a master trust though.

Was that selling and transferring in cash or in speccie?

Selling and transferring in cash. All managed by SW and ii

QrizB

horace972897 said:

QrizB said:

horace972897 said:

QrizB said:

Traditional pension providers aren't set up like day trading platforms. Selling one funs and buying another can take days.

horace972897 said:

... i'm not sure how well my nerves can take not knowing if the market could drop in the long timesscale between pressing the button to sell and the sale happening.

What adverse consequences do you envision if this drop happens?

If the market drops, it'll drop regardless of whether you're selling your investments or not.

The adverse consequence is that by selling and moving to cash/money market fund i will have crystalised the loss - can't transfer in speccie where i'm ok with the drop and i will just hold and wait for it to return again

e.g. Fund value £100 in shares - sell to cash but market drops by 50% in the days it takes to happen and then buy shares when in the SIPP - value now £50

Butif you don't sell and stay where you are, it'll still fall by 50%.

And if you're moving to a similar fund at your destination, that too will have dropped 50% so you'll still buy the same amount (number of units) of it.

If this was all completed in a timely manner you are correct but there is talk of weeks of time between the sales into cash and the transfer to the other provider.

So it's not the crash you're worried about, but missing the subsequent recovery?

horace972897

QrizB said:

horace972897 said:

QrizB said:

horace972897 said:

QrizB said:

Traditional pension providers aren't set up like day trading platforms. Selling one funs and buying another can take days.

horace972897 said:

... i'm not sure how well my nerves can take not knowing if the market could drop in the long timesscale between pressing the button to sell and the sale happening.

What adverse consequences do you envision if this drop happens?

If the market drops, it'll drop regardless of whether you're selling your investments or not.

The adverse consequence is that by selling and moving to cash/money market fund i will have crystalised the loss - can't transfer in speccie where i'm ok with the drop and i will just hold and wait for it to return again

e.g. Fund value £100 in shares - sell to cash but market drops by 50% in the days it takes to happen and then buy shares when in the SIPP - value now £50

Butif you don't sell and stay where you are, it'll still fall by 50%.

And if you're moving to a similar fund at your destination, that too will have dropped 50% so you'll still buy the same amount (number of units) of it.

If this was all completed in a timely manner you are correct but there is talk of weeks of time between the sales into cash and the transfer to the other provider.

So it's not the crash you're worried about, but missing the subsequent recovery?

I guess so and when you put it like that, if Dunstonh is correct and it’s days, it’s not too much of a worry.

However I've seen posts talking about weeks and months with Mercer. Which would be more so, unless the actual sell is close to the actual transfer (which is info I couldn't get out of the Mercer helpdesk.) (edit added the missing bracket)