TTFAC supplier?

ChippyIbe

I had two PCLS in 2022 for £30k and £40k from DB schemes. I have the BCE paperwork from both to enable a TTFAC application if I wish to. I need to study the numbers carefully.

I'll be taking another PCLS later this year from a SIPP.

It seems I have the option of applying to the SIPP provider, or either of the '2022' DB scheme administrators for the TTFAC. One of the DB pensions is a large UK plc with a well-run scheme.

One thing I read is that half the 'proof' of the BCE amounts from the DB schemes sits with either of those pension admins, so one of those might be the best supplier of the TTFAC.

Is there any reason to apply instead to my SIPP provider for the TTFAC, given that they will apply it next.

I have two further DC pots but won't be touching them for at least 3 years. HMRC rules mean they will of course need a copy of the TTFAC anyway.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

xylophone

https://techzone.aberdeenadviser.com/public/pensions/TTFAC-transitional-certificates may be of interest.

ChippyIbe

xylophone said:

https://techzone.aberdeenadviser.com/public/pensions/TTFAC-transitional-certificates may be of interest.

Thanks. Useful stuff, and the Aberdeen view as per the above was my starting point until I read of a few bad examples of TTFAC !!!!!!-ups in earlier MSE  Forum posts. Some have apparently even be reissued after errors it would seem, which I didn't think possible.

So I guess my question is, who is least likely to screw up? 

Albermarle

I had two PCLS in 2022 for £30k and £40k from DB schemes

Are you saying that you did not take the full PCLS that was available, because only then would a TTFAC be needed?

I had taken a DB scheme with no PCLS at all.
I was reluctant to approach the DB administrator due to their incompetence and serial unresponsiveness, in dealing with my DB pension.
So I approached my SIPP provider, and they sent me some forms to fill in and I sent them copies of correspondence with the DB administrator, that showed it was obvious I had not taken the PCLS.
Later I got a certificate showing zero Lump sum allowance used. This was applied when I took my first withdrawal from my SIPP. 

ChippyIbe

Albermarle said:

I had two PCLS in 2022 for £30k and £40k from DB schemes

Are you saying that you did not take the full PCLS that was available, because only then would a TTFAC be needed?

I had taken a DB scheme with no PCLS at all.
I was reluctant to approach the DB administrator due to their incompetence and serial unresponsiveness, in dealing with my DB pension.
So I approached my SIPP provider, and they sent me some forms to fill in and I sent them copies of correspondence with the DB administrator, that showed it was obvious I had not taken the PCLS.
Later I got a certificate showing zero Lump sum allowance used. This was applied when I took my first withdrawal from my SIPP. 

The 30k ish PCLS could have been higher,  about twice a large, so the % of LTA used at the time and stated in the BCE statement  is about twice the percentage of the (now) LSA actually used by the PCLS paid to me at the time

On that basis I think I need to apply for TTFAC, Is that correct? 

The 40k ish PCLS was the maximum so the percentages are the same

DRS1

ChippyIbe said:

Albermarle said:

I had two PCLS in 2022 for £30k and £40k from DB schemes

Are you saying that you did not take the full PCLS that was available, because only then would a TTFAC be needed?

I had taken a DB scheme with no PCLS at all.
I was reluctant to approach the DB administrator due to their incompetence and serial unresponsiveness, in dealing with my DB pension.
So I approached my SIPP provider, and they sent me some forms to fill in and I sent them copies of correspondence with the DB administrator, that showed it was obvious I had not taken the PCLS.
Later I got a certificate showing zero Lump sum allowance used. This was applied when I took my first withdrawal from my SIPP. 

The 30k ish PCLS could have been higher,  about twice a large, so the % of LTA used at the time and stated in the BCE statement  is about twice the percentage of the (now) LSA actually used by the PCLS paid to me at the time

On that basis I think I need to apply for TTFAC, Is that correct? 

The 40k ish PCLS was the maximum so the percentages are the same

It sounds right.

I may be oversimplifying but crudely 70/268 is about 26.11% so if the total percentage of LTA used up by your BCEs so far  is over that then I think a TTFAC would help.  You can work out a more precise percentage as you know the exact amount of lump sum taken so far.

The stuff on the web about TTFACs has examples where a TTFAC is a bad idea so have a look at those examples and see if any might apply to you.

ChippyIbe

DRS1 said:

ChippyIbe said:

Albermarle said:

I had two PCLS in 2022 for £30k and £40k from DB schemes

Are you saying that you did not take the full PCLS that was available, because only then would a TTFAC be needed?

I had taken a DB scheme with no PCLS at all.
I was reluctant to approach the DB administrator due to their incompetence and serial unresponsiveness, in dealing with my DB pension.
So I approached my SIPP provider, and they sent me some forms to fill in and I sent them copies of correspondence with the DB administrator, that showed it was obvious I had not taken the PCLS.
Later I got a certificate showing zero Lump sum allowance used. This was applied when I took my first withdrawal from my SIPP. 

The 30k ish PCLS could have been higher,  about twice a large, so the % of LTA used at the time and stated in the BCE statement  is about twice the percentage of the (now) LSA actually used by the PCLS paid to me at the time

On that basis I think I need to apply for TTFAC, Is that correct? 

The 40k ish PCLS was the maximum so the percentages are the same

It sounds right.

I may be oversimplifying but crudely 70/268 is about 26.11% so if the total percentage of LTA used up by your BCEs so far  is over that then I think a TTFAC would help.  You can work out a more precise percentage as you know the exact amount of lump sum taken so far.

The stuff on the web about TTFACs has examples where a TTFAC is a bad idea so have a look at those examples and see if any might apply to you.

Thanks. Yes the total LTA used by the BCEs is  around 35%.

I'll also look at the bad idea examples you mention as a double check.

In terms of who ask to issue the TTFAC, the UKplc scheme is the one with the lower than maximum possible PCLS giving rise to the % gap. The SIPP is with Interactive Investor. Which would folks ask?

Albermarle

ChippyIbe said:

DRS1 said:

ChippyIbe said:

Albermarle said:

I had two PCLS in 2022 for £30k and £40k from DB schemes

Are you saying that you did not take the full PCLS that was available, because only then would a TTFAC be needed?

I had taken a DB scheme with no PCLS at all.
I was reluctant to approach the DB administrator due to their incompetence and serial unresponsiveness, in dealing with my DB pension.
So I approached my SIPP provider, and they sent me some forms to fill in and I sent them copies of correspondence with the DB administrator, that showed it was obvious I had not taken the PCLS.
Later I got a certificate showing zero Lump sum allowance used. This was applied when I took my first withdrawal from my SIPP. 

The 30k ish PCLS could have been higher,  about twice a large, so the % of LTA used at the time and stated in the BCE statement  is about twice the percentage of the (now) LSA actually used by the PCLS paid to me at the time

On that basis I think I need to apply for TTFAC, Is that correct? 

The 40k ish PCLS was the maximum so the percentages are the same

It sounds right.

I may be oversimplifying but crudely 70/268 is about 26.11% so if the total percentage of LTA used up by your BCEs so far  is over that then I think a TTFAC would help.  You can work out a more precise percentage as you know the exact amount of lump sum taken so far.

The stuff on the web about TTFACs has examples where a TTFAC is a bad idea so have a look at those examples and see if any might apply to you.

Thanks. Yes the total LTA used by the BCEs is  around 35%.

I'll also look at the bad idea examples you mention as a double check.

In terms of who ask to issue the TTFAC, the UKplc scheme is the one with the lower than maximum possible PCLS giving rise to the % gap. The SIPP is with Interactive Investor. Which would folks ask?

I think ideally the UKplc scheme, but as I said my SIPP provider ( not II) issued mine, based on evidence I supplied to them. .
Be aware it is a bit of a niche item, and possibly whoever you speak to might not know anything about it.

It sounds like with a TTFAC, you could potentially withdraw another £30K tax free, so a saving of £6K for a basic rate taxpayer. 
Of course this only comes into effect if you are likely to reach the maximum lump sum allowance of £268K at some point.

DRS1

Does a search for interactive investor and TTFACS throw up any examples of ii making a mess of things or refusing to give a certificate?  If not I'd be inclined to ask them since they would also be the ones processing the new TFLS.  For the DB Schemes it would be just another chore.  OK there is a statutory timescale so there shouldn't be that much delay.
But I have no personal experience of asking for a TTFAC as I had no pre 24 benefits.

ChippyIbe

Albermarle said:

ChippyIbe said:

DRS1 said:

ChippyIbe said:

Albermarle said:

I had two PCLS in 2022 for £30k and £40k from DB schemes

Are you saying that you did not take the full PCLS that was available, because only then would a TTFAC be needed?

I had taken a DB scheme with no PCLS at all.
I was reluctant to approach the DB administrator due to their incompetence and serial unresponsiveness, in dealing with my DB pension.
So I approached my SIPP provider, and they sent me some forms to fill in and I sent them copies of correspondence with the DB administrator, that showed it was obvious I had not taken the PCLS.
Later I got a certificate showing zero Lump sum allowance used. This was applied when I took my first withdrawal from my SIPP. 

The 30k ish PCLS could have been higher,  about twice a large, so the % of LTA used at the time and stated in the BCE statement  is about twice the percentage of the (now) LSA actually used by the PCLS paid to me at the time

On that basis I think I need to apply for TTFAC, Is that correct? 

The 40k ish PCLS was the maximum so the percentages are the same

It sounds right.

I may be oversimplifying but crudely 70/268 is about 26.11% so if the total percentage of LTA used up by your BCEs so far  is over that then I think a TTFAC would help.  You can work out a more precise percentage as you know the exact amount of lump sum taken so far.

The stuff on the web about TTFACs has examples where a TTFAC is a bad idea so have a look at those examples and see if any might apply to you.

Thanks. Yes the total LTA used by the BCEs is  around 35%.

I'll also look at the bad idea examples you mention as a double check.

In terms of who ask to issue the TTFAC, the UKplc scheme is the one with the lower than maximum possible PCLS giving rise to the % gap. The SIPP is with Interactive Investor. Which would folks ask?

I think ideally the UKplc scheme, but as I said my SIPP provider ( not II) issued mine, based on evidence I supplied to them. .
Be aware it is a bit of a niche item, and possibly whoever you speak to might not know anything about it.

It sounds like with a TTFAC, you could potentially withdraw another £30K tax free, so a saving of £6K for a basic rate taxpayer. 
Of course this only comes into effect if you are likely to reach the maximum lump sum allowance of £268K at some point.

Thanks again.

Quite possible that growth of my DC pots will take me close to the LSA limit.

Albermarle

ChippyIbe said:

Albermarle said:

ChippyIbe said:

DRS1 said:

ChippyIbe said:

Albermarle said:

I had two PCLS in 2022 for £30k and £40k from DB schemes

Are you saying that you did not take the full PCLS that was available, because only then would a TTFAC be needed?

I had taken a DB scheme with no PCLS at all.
I was reluctant to approach the DB administrator due to their incompetence and serial unresponsiveness, in dealing with my DB pension.
So I approached my SIPP provider, and they sent me some forms to fill in and I sent them copies of correspondence with the DB administrator, that showed it was obvious I had not taken the PCLS.
Later I got a certificate showing zero Lump sum allowance used. This was applied when I took my first withdrawal from my SIPP. 

The 30k ish PCLS could have been higher,  about twice a large, so the % of LTA used at the time and stated in the BCE statement  is about twice the percentage of the (now) LSA actually used by the PCLS paid to me at the time

On that basis I think I need to apply for TTFAC, Is that correct? 

The 40k ish PCLS was the maximum so the percentages are the same

It sounds right.

I may be oversimplifying but crudely 70/268 is about 26.11% so if the total percentage of LTA used up by your BCEs so far  is over that then I think a TTFAC would help.  You can work out a more precise percentage as you know the exact amount of lump sum taken so far.

The stuff on the web about TTFACs has examples where a TTFAC is a bad idea so have a look at those examples and see if any might apply to you.

Thanks. Yes the total LTA used by the BCEs is  around 35%.

I'll also look at the bad idea examples you mention as a double check.

In terms of who ask to issue the TTFAC, the UKplc scheme is the one with the lower than maximum possible PCLS giving rise to the % gap. The SIPP is with Interactive Investor. Which would folks ask?

I think ideally the UKplc scheme, but as I said my SIPP provider ( not II) issued mine, based on evidence I supplied to them. .
Be aware it is a bit of a niche item, and possibly whoever you speak to might not know anything about it.

It sounds like with a TTFAC, you could potentially withdraw another £30K tax free, so a saving of £6K for a basic rate taxpayer. 
Of course this only comes into effect if you are likely to reach the maximum lump sum allowance of £268K at some point.

Thanks again.

Quite possible that growth of my DC pots will take me close to the LSA limit.

Yes same for me, especially as the LSA is frozen.  So might see the benefit from having this certificate in 10 years time, rather than now.

When I took my first slug of tax free cash from my SIPP, I had to go through them with it on the phone as I had this certificate, as it was a bit out of the ordinary, even though they had issued it.
When I took a second one later I just did it all on line.