PicoStream: Micro scale (2kWp) Hydro power generation for the UK!

Screwdriva

Great to finally see an inexpensive, simple to install and commission hydroelectric power solution that will work well for UK properties with streams flowing through them! 

Looks like the cost is < £10K but is yet to be confirmed. Install time is 4 hours and DNO approvals take < 2 months. 

Assuming consistent flow and reliability, this will blow Solar PV out of the water (forgive the pun) in terms of payback. Very exciting! 

https://www.fishfriendlyhydro.co/faqs

silverwhistle

Is it the DNO you should be worried about? I was under the impression that the DofEnvironment would have a say?

Where I used to live in the Alps over 10 years ago they always had examples of these microturbines at the local annual fair, along with food, crafts, milking machinery, wine etc.! They did have the advantage of big heads, even if a bit of intermittency. Here of course with our climate they might complement solar a bit better.

Edit: re above, they say not..

Martyn1981

I like the idea of hydro, and small hydro, so wish them the absolute best, but I'm not sure an undershot design is going to beat PV on value. These are typically designed for low head, and I think I recall something like this (pico/micro hydro) being discussed on a farming forum (maybe 5yrs or so ago), with perhaps 300-500W of generation. The conclusion back then, was that PV was simply to much cheaper and simpler.

At 300W, 24/7/365, that would compare to around 3kWp of PV. But of course, the steady generation, especially through the night and winter months, would have greater value.

In this case, the company suggest it could be as high as 1kW, which is more akin to 8-10kWp of PV, but I assume that will depend largely on the head available, so every site will vary.

Another plus for this design, is that it floats, which is perhaps how it gets around, or simplifies the rules regarding abstraction licences (even if the water is simply returned in whole). Maybe that's the reason for the undershot design, v's the more efficient overshot waterwheel, or even a conventional low head water turbine. The company does seem to be leaning in heavily on the simplification of the rules regarding hydro.

Maybe one to follow, and keep my fingers crossed that my doubts are unwarranted.

Now pondering, if you did have an old mill or similar, with its own penstock, could you also add a water source heat pump, with the change of water preventing loss of efficiency, and the water flow powering the HP. That would be a nice package .... or I'm imagineering some nonsense. 

QrizB

I'm with Martyn on this - a nice idea, but how well is it going to work in practice?

I remember all those B&Q wind turbines ...

Screwdriva

QrizB said:

I'm with Martyn on this - a nice idea, but how well is it going to work in practice?

I have a compatible (listed so off limits for Solar PV) property owned by a close friend in Pembrokeshire who has expressed interest in this solution, precisely due to the benefits it claims to deliver. Their stream (and tolerance for bureaucracy/ paperwork) is a bit too small for a traditional hydro turbine but PicoStream appears ideally suited.

I'll update this thread should the company agree to install following their expression of interest. 

Martyn1981

Screwdriva said:

QrizB said:

I'm with Martyn on this - a nice idea, but how well is it going to work in practice?

I have a compatible property owned by a close friend in Pembrokeshire who has expressed interest in this solution, precisely due to the benefits it claims to deliver. Their stream (and tolerance for bureaucracy/ paperwork) is a bit too small for a traditional hydro turbine but PicoStream appears ideally suited.

I'll update this thread should the company agree to install following their expression of interest. 

That would be really interesting and helpful to follow, many thanks.

I'm guessing from the £5k deposit needed, that we are talking around £10k for the ~1kW version operating at maybe 80% cf. But I'm speculating like crazy now.

But let's say £10k and 800W just for a slightly negative look. That would be around 7,000kWh pa, which is high v's PV, but I'd suggest OK(?) value given the generation profile, especially with a winter uplift (another assumption by me).

Also worth pondering batteries, both (PV and hydro) may require batts, but presumably the generation profile of the hydro would allow for a far smaller amount ...... damn, yet another guess/assumption. See, that's why I love to hear personal feedback on all this stuff, even if it does mean ruling something out, as that too has value as a 'lesson learned' opportunity.

Screwdriva

Martyn1981 said:

But let's say £10k and 800W just for a slightly negative look. That would be around 7,000kWh pa, which is high v's PV, but I'd suggest OK(?) value given the generation profile, especially with a winter uplift (another assumption by me).

I am not sure on the cost but this is what they state for generation:

Martyn1981

Screwdriva said:

Martyn1981 said:

But let's say £10k and 800W just for a slightly negative look. That would be around 7,000kWh pa, which is high v's PV, but I'd suggest OK(?) value given the generation profile, especially with a winter uplift (another assumption by me).

I am not sure on the cost but this is what they state for generation:

Yes, but I'm assuming the 2000W model will cost more, or entail two units. That's why I went with the ~1kW at 80%cf they mention in their video.

Regarding cost, given the £5k deposit needed, a guess of around £10k seemed a reasonable start.

The FAQ reference to 40 PV panels is a bit vague, but a well sited 4kW WT would hopefully generate ~9,000kWh pa.

Screwdriva

Martyn1981 said:

Yes, but I'm assuming the 2000W model will cost more, or entail two units. That's why I went with the ~1kW at 80%cf they mention in their video.

Regarding cost, given the £5k deposit needed, a guess of around £10k seemed a reasonable start.

The FAQ reference to 40 PV panels is a bit vague, but a well sited 4kW WT would hopefully generate ~9,000kWh pa.

My very early understanding is that the "turbine" has evolved to generate more power at lower flow rates. So a 2kWP is stated but generation may indeed be somewhere between 1.1-1.5 kWh. 

Cost of < £10K  is a reasonable assumption - I should know more on this next week. I expect the PicoStream to be a 10mWh per annum solution in the right environment. Definitely not a mass market product but for those lucky enough to have some water flowing through their properties, a great way to generate power! 

Martyn1981

Screwdriva said:

Martyn1981 said:

Yes, but I'm assuming the 2000W model will cost more, or entail two units. That's why I went with the ~1kW at 80%cf they mention in their video.

Regarding cost, given the £5k deposit needed, a guess of around £10k seemed a reasonable start.

The FAQ reference to 40 PV panels is a bit vague, but a well sited 4kW WT would hopefully generate ~9,000kWh pa.

My very early understanding is that the "turbine" has evolved to generate more power at lower flow rates. So a 2kWP is stated but generation may indeed be somewhere between 1.1-1.5 kWh. 

Cost of < £10K  is a reasonable assumption - I should know more on this next week. I expect the PicoStream to be a 10mWh per annum solution in the right environment. Definitely not a mass market product but for those lucky enough to have some water flowing through their properties, a great way to generate power! 

You may be right, perhaps they have now developed another larger turbine to be a 2kW model, whereas their vid states it can generate upto 1,000W (1kW), and suggest around 8,000kWh+ pa.

But, bear in mind, this isn't new technology. As far as I can see, the two big pluses are fish friendly, and floating, to get around potential restrictions. But it's still 'just' an undershot waterwheel, and would presumably generate similar to other such devices already available.

QrizB

Martyn1981 said:

But, bear in mind, this isn't new technology. As far as I can see, the two big pluses are fish friendly, and floating, to get around potential restrictions. But it's still 'just' an undershot waterwheel, and would presumably generate similar to other such devices already available.

Pleased to see this being developed and built here in the UK.

And not trying to detract from anything else, but the "floating" aspect appears to still be mostly aspirational.

From their website (my bold):

For our hydropower solution you’ll need a river or a large stream. You’ll need to ensure you have rights to the riverbanks too.

How much depends on the location. At the moment we’re focusing on customers who’ve got a weir (waterfall or a sharp change in height/drop of the flow). Old mills are perfect - if there was enough power to run grinding stones, then there should be more than enough for our turbine!

The example pictured there is also a fixed installation: