Is this unpaid work or below minimum wage

NotArobot24

A family member of mine responded to an organisation that promises payment from day one and placement into an employer in your area, there was also a certification after a year.  The first year salary was about £7k lower than second year.

They had to do all kinds of tests and assessments which they passed with flying colours, they then participated in group events, role playing, more assessments (all equivalent of 1st in scoring) and more group events.

Some of these were in hotels where room and food were paid for, not sure about travel.

They were supposed to expect placement after four months of these activities which actually ended up being more like training for others rather than them.

Finally 6 months later they did not find a placement and they have not been paid any salary, just the Hotel expenses. 

They were required to participate and at specific times, they were given complex tasks to complete, which it seems to me have a value to the organisation. 

It is hard to describe more without naming and I do not want to do that.

Imagine if you could drive but someone promised to get you a job with a courier if you did some "training and workshops", these then involved making deliveries and teaching others to drive and you were not only promised the job but a certification, neither of which happened.

Imagine if you could cook but someone promised to get you a job with a restaurant if you did some "training and workshops" which involved cooking and teaching others to cook.and you were not only promised the job but a certification, neither of which happened.

Imagine if you had studied law and someone promised to get you a pupillage with a barrister chambers if you did some "training and workshops" which involved testing and teaching others about the law and you were not only promised the job but a certification, neither of which happened.

Are you entitled to an income (even at minimum wage) for the 6 months?

If so, what is the legislation to quote when bringing a claim and should it be done to Employment Tribunal?

superbigal

Have any of the T&Cs signed up for been breached ?  If so concentrate on those first.

born_again

NotArobot24 said:

A family member of mine responded to an organisation that promises payment from day one and placement into an employer in your area, there was also a certification after a year.  The first year salary was about £7k lower than second year.

They had to do all kinds of tests and assessments which they passed with flying colours, they then participated in group events, role playing, more assessments (all equivalent of 1st in scoring) and more group events.

Some of these were in hotels where room and food were paid for, not sure about travel.

They were supposed to expect placement after four months of these activities which actually ended up being more like training for others rather than them.

Finally 6 months later they did not find a placement and they have not been paid any salary, just the Hotel expenses. 

They were required to participate and at specific times, they were given complex tasks to complete, which it seems to me have a value to the organisation. 

It is hard to describe more without naming and I do not want to do that.

Imagine if you could drive but someone promised to get you a job with a courier if you did some "training and workshops", these then involved making deliveries and teaching others to drive and you were not only promised the job but a certification, neither of which happened.

Imagine if you could cook but someone promised to get you a job with a restaurant if you did some "training and workshops" which involved cooking and teaching others to cook.and you were not only promised the job but a certification, neither of which happened.

Imagine if you had studied law and someone promised to get you a pupillage with a barrister chambers if you did some "training and workshops" which involved testing and teaching others about the law and you were not only promised the job but a certification, neither of which happened.

Are you entitled to an income (even at minimum wage) for the 6 months?

If so, what is the legislation to quote when bringing a claim and should it be done to Employment Tribunal?

Who was this with?

Marcon

NotArobot24 said:

A family member of mine responded to an organisation that promises payment from day one and placement into an employer in your area, there was also a certification after a year.  The first year salary was about £7k lower than second year.

They had to do all kinds of tests and assessments which they passed with flying colours, they then participated in group events, role playing, more assessments (all equivalent of 1st in scoring) and more group events.

Some of these were in hotels where room and food were paid for, not sure about travel.

They were supposed to expect placement after four months of these activities which actually ended up being more like training for others rather than them.

Finally 6 months later they did not find a placement and they have not been paid any salary, just the Hotel expenses. 

They were required to participate and at specific times, they were given complex tasks to complete, which it seems to me have a value to the organisation. 

It is hard to describe more without naming and I do not want to do that.

Imagine if you could drive but someone promised to get you a job with a courier if you did some "training and workshops", these then involved making deliveries and teaching others to drive and you were not only promised the job but a certification, neither of which happened.

Imagine if you could cook but someone promised to get you a job with a restaurant if you did some "training and workshops" which involved cooking and teaching others to cook.and you were not only promised the job but a certification, neither of which happened.

Imagine if you had studied law and someone promised to get you a pupillage with a barrister chambers if you did some "training and workshops" which involved testing and teaching others about the law and you were not only promised the job but a certification, neither of which happened.

Are you entitled to an income (even at minimum wage) for the 6 months?

If so, what is the legislation to quote when bringing a claim and should it be done to Employment Tribunal?

What was their status during this period - were they actually an employee, a worker....? What were the T&C on which they carried out these activities? Certification of what after year? 

Who funded all this - was the 'organisation' concerned given some sort of grant for these activities/experiences, and if so by whom? 

You can't expect meaningful replies if crucial elements like that aren't covered in your question.

NCC1701-A

Is your family member in receipt of JSA or similar and been enrolled on a work based training or sector based work academy programme?

Grumpy_chap

NotArobot24 said:

Imagine if you had studied law and someone promised to get you a pupillage with a barrister chambers if you did some "training and workshops" which involved testing and teaching others about the law and you were not only promised the job but a certification, neither of which happened.

That one kind of happens quite a lot as newly qualified legal practitioners can be required to complete an unpaid Internship and / or offer Pro-Bono services.

Is the organisation involved presenting themselves as an employer (direct), or an employment agency, or a training college, or something else?

NotArobot24

superbigal said:

Have any of the T&Cs signed up for been breached ?  If so concentrate on those first.

Usually I would agree, but there are such things as unfair contract terms where they contradict common law.

NotArobot24

born_again said:

NotArobot24 said:

It is hard to describe more without naming and I do not want to do that.

Who was this with?

Explained in my post which you quoted

NotArobot24

NCC1701-A said:

Is your family member in receipt of JSA or similar and been enrolled on a work based training or sector based work academy programme?

No none of those

NotArobot24

Grumpy_chap said:

NotArobot24 said:

Imagine if you had studied law and someone promised to get you a pupillage with a barrister chambers if you did some "training and workshops" which involved testing and teaching others about the law and you were not only promised the job but a certification, neither of which happened.

That one kind of happens quite a lot as newly qualified legal practitioners can be required to complete an unpaid Internship and / or offer Pro-Bono services.

Is the organisation involved presenting themselves as an employer (direct), or an employment agency, or a training college, or something else?

This is it, they do not call it an internship or a pro-bono

They do not say they are an employment agency or training college or anything, mostly it is focused on the result they promise to deliver.

We did push back and have managed to secure several thousand pounds now, just a question of whether that will suffice.  A matter of calculating the hours and seeing if when the offer amount is divided by the hours it comes above minimum wage.  Probably just accept it for good will purposes, not sure, they have caused a lot of upset.