Women and the pension poverty gap

Brie

Mistermeaner said:

Correlation vs causation ; it is not being female per se that leads to lower pensions

it might be better phrased that “people who earn less / work less / take career breaks do not accrue the same benefits as those who earn more / work more / don’t take career breaks. There are a higher proportion of females in the first category and a higher proportion of males in the second”

confusing correlation with causation often leads to incorrect conclusions and ‘fixes’ to issues 


Another point is that we were meant to make and raise children together as a family unit , there will always be non fault separations but one of the most important decisions any of us make is who to couple up with and breed with - that decision should not be taken lightly and jointly managing finances long and short term should be a huge factor in that decision making process. On paper my pension wealth far exceeds my missus but it’s a meaningless distinction as it’s all ‘ours’ 

I understand what you're saying but disagree in that men don't get pregnant nor have menopause and both of these are cited for being reasons women accrue less pensions.  So that, to me, is a direct cause.  

That women more often interrupt or stop working for caring responsibilities is due to a social construct that says that they should be doing this rather than men.  That is much easier to change than actual biology. 

Yarrows

BrilliantButScary said:

This is quite enlightening, particularly the comments section!

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-15291351/New-dads-pension-gap-shared-parental-leave.html?ico=amp-comments-viewall&_gl=1*su9co1*_ga*TG5LVVd6SGdGWXVLUlJiN29GSXFESEZ6MlZQMUFzZEdVaDVxMUdybHJxUmFTTjlwa1J2cWl4M2dadDJlUWZnTg..*_ga_GQE6MT7DLZ*MTc2MzgxODA1NS4yLjEuMTc2MzgxODA1Ni4wLjAuMA..#

Re the comments, not sure enlightening was the word 

Brie

Yarrows said:

BrilliantButScary said:

This is quite enlightening, particularly the comments section!

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-15291351/New-dads-pension-gap-shared-parental-leave.html?ico=amp-comments-viewall&_gl=1*su9co1*_ga*TG5LVVd6SGdGWXVLUlJiN29GSXFESEZ6MlZQMUFzZEdVaDVxMUdybHJxUmFTTjlwa1J2cWl4M2dadDJlUWZnTg..*_ga_GQE6MT7DLZ*MTc2MzgxODA1NS4yLjEuMTc2MzgxODA1Ni4wLjAuMA..#

Re the comments, not sure enlightening was the word 

quite agree - talk about being delusional if being at home looking after the house and children is considered a cushy option!!  And the idea that if there's only one person isn't getting an income then the other will be able to afford to contribute without any strain!

BrilliantButScary

Yarrows said:

BrilliantButScary said:

This is quite enlightening, particularly the comments section!

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-15291351/New-dads-pension-gap-shared-parental-leave.html?ico=amp-comments-viewall&_gl=1*su9co1*_ga*TG5LVVd6SGdGWXVLUlJiN29GSXFESEZ6MlZQMUFzZEdVaDVxMUdybHJxUmFTTjlwa1J2cWl4M2dadDJlUWZnTg..*_ga_GQE6MT7DLZ*MTc2MzgxODA1NS4yLjEuMTc2MzgxODA1Ni4wLjAuMA..#

Re the comments, not sure enlightening was the word 

I didn't say I agree with the comments! But sadly they are a representation of what some people think.
Enlightening means to shed light on a subject.
Misogyny is definitely alive and well on the Mail Online. 

Yarrows

BrilliantButScary said:

I didn't say I agree with the comments! But sadly they are a representation of what some people think.

Enlightening means to shed light on a subject.
Misogyny is definitely alive and well on the Mail Online. 

Oh I know! But I already knew that misogyny is alive and well in society at large so I didn't feel very enlightened by reading them, more depressed 

But it was in no way a criticism of your sharing the link or pointing at the comments!

Yarrows

Brie said:

quite agree - talk about being delusional if being at home looking after the house and children is considered a cushy option!!  And the idea that if there's only one person isn't getting an income then the other will be able to afford to contribute without any strain!

And the idea that deciding whether to have kids is a purely personal (and unforced!) decision about a luxury item that doesn't in any way affect anyone else in society or the economy.

Qyburn

Brie said:

quite agree - talk about being delusional if being at home looking after the house and children is considered a cushy option!!  And the idea that if there's only one person isn't getting an income then the other will be able to afford to contribute without any strain!

That's not really a pension issue.  If only one from a couple works, they'll have less money. No real way out of that, unless it's being suggested that non-working women (or men of course) should have their private pension contributions paid by others.

Brie

Qyburn said:

Brie said:

quite agree - talk about being delusional if being at home looking after the house and children is considered a cushy option!!  And the idea that if there's only one person isn't getting an income then the other will be able to afford to contribute without any strain!

That's not really a pension issue.  If only one from a couple works, they'll have less money. No real way out of that, unless it's being suggested that non-working women (or men of course) should have their private pension contributions paid by others.

No but the comment was that if someone (aka the woman) stops working for ££ because she's at home looking after the children then obviously the father can just ensure there's money to put into her private pension to make sure she doesn't miss out.  The fact that they are down one income plus having more expenses due to having an additional family member doesn't seem to have entered their pea sized brains.  Not every family has the luxury of extra cash.  

Qyburn

BrilliantButScary said:

There is a school of thought that men should pay into their partner's pension, whilst the partner is on maternity leave, or a career break to look after children. 

That's not really any different to paying into his own. They will only be able to afford so much whether it's all into his or split between his and hers.

strawb_shortcake

Qyburn said:

Brie said:

quite agree - talk about being delusional if being at home looking after the house and children is considered a cushy option!!  And the idea that if there's only one person isn't getting an income then the other will be able to afford to contribute without any strain!

That's not really a pension issue.  If only one from a couple works, they'll have less money. No real way out of that, unless it's being suggested that non-working women (or men of course) should have their private pension contributions paid by others.

My Husband and I are the opposite of this thread with me being pretty much the sole earner and responsible for all the bills. 
Contributing a meaningful amount to a private pension for him certainly hasn't been possible for much of the time he hasn't worked. We could contribute now, but to be meaningful our current lifestyle would likely change. 
We've talked about him having a private pension, but due to health issues and family history on his side he's not convinced he'll see pension age so would rather enjoy the now. 
We are ensuring he gets a full state pension and hopefully he'll work more regularly though part time from next year. 

In theory I should be a higher rate (40%) tax payer as a pensioner 
If I go first he gets 37% of my pension and all our savings, plus his state pension. He can be frugal so he'd be comfortable I think - in today's terms £27k a year in pensions

I feel I earn a decent wage, our bills are pretty low but supporting a home and family on one wage is a juggling act. When I look at how others live seemingly much better than us, it always comes down to having two wages (or boat loads of debt, but no one sees that and assumes the latter).