Aviva New Generation Pension - reduced capabilities?

cfw1994

I recently discovered I am no longer able to directly chose funds for my main DC pot with Aviva.
Maybe a minor thing - I can contact the team and ask them to move things, with a delay of a day (& the small risk they make an error through mis-hearing me!).

I've always had that ability, have used it a number of times over the past 10-15 years, and indeed used it only in July to make a tweak 🧐

They have (eventually!) told me that they understand I’ve been able to make fund switches since your policy went into drawdown, but when they contacted the online team, they confirmed policies in drawdown can no longer make fund switches on-line 🤦‍♂️
All of a sudden.
With zero communication.
& no reason given.

Is this something anyone else has noticed?
Is it normal to change like that?

Have to say it makes me strongly consider moving the entire pot.   Just feels they don't really think of me as a customer any more 🤷‍♂️

On that point: does anyone (maybe @dunstonh!) know if it would let me move half to one platform, and half to another?   I know it is in Origo, & the target would also use that, to keep things 'simple'.
I would add the caveat that the receiving platform would need to take funds that are in drawdown with all TFLS taken.

dunstonh

Is this something anyone else has noticed?

yes.    

Is it normal to change like that?

The NGP range was originally a Friends Provident product.  It was set up on systems run by Friends Provident and controlled out of Salisbury.        When Aviva bought Friends Life, a lot of the online functionality on ex Friends Provident and ex AXA Sun Life plans was removed.   Things would start being turned off as they tried to move plans onto the Aviva systems (of which there are multiple due to other mergers and buyouts).

The NGP product is long in the tooth.   It launched in 2001 and was coded using 1990s systems and coding.  It had a SIPP bolt-on added in 2007 with some schemes.   Its not compatible with current Aviva systems.

Spending millions on a product type that has an ever-decreasing number of policyholders is not cost-effective, and, just like other legacy plans, it becomes cheaper to either transfer the policy to a modern plan or let the customer move it away if they don't want to stay with Aviva.      For IFAs, Aviva offers discounts on the platform charge when you move from Aviva Life & Pension plans to the Aviva platform.  I don't know if they do the same if you use the direct-to-client version.   However, even if they don't, you will probably find that the Aviva platform offered D2C is a better value than the NGP pension and has a whole of market fund selection.    However, if you self select then its likely other D2C platforms are better suited to you.       A modern D2C whole of market platform vs a late 90s coded personal pension is like chalk and cheese.

On that point: does anyone (maybe @dunstonh!) know if it would let me move half to one platform, and half to another?   I know it is in Origo, & the target would also use that, to keep things 'simple'.

No. You cannot partial transfer crystallised funds.

FIREDreamer

dunstonh said:

You cannot partial transfer crystallised funds.

The exception is when you want to use part, but not all, of a drawdown pot to buy an annuity.

Marcon

FIREDreamer said:

dunstonh said:

You cannot partial transfer crystallised funds.

The exception is when you want to use part, but not all, of a drawdown pot to buy an annuity.

The point is well made, but that's not actually a transfer!

FIREDreamer

Marcon said:

FIREDreamer said:

dunstonh said:

You cannot partial transfer crystallised funds.

The exception is when you want to use part, but not all, of a drawdown pot to buy an annuity.

The point is well made, but that's not actually a transfer!

Well it is technically a transfer of one’s pension monies from one company to another. 😀

dunstonh

FIREDreamer said:

Marcon said:

FIREDreamer said:

dunstonh said:

You cannot partial transfer crystallised funds.

The exception is when you want to use part, but not all, of a drawdown pot to buy an annuity.

The point is well made, but that's not actually a transfer!

Well it is technically a transfer of one’s pension monies from one company to another. 😀

Technically, it's an OMO.  Not a transfer.     Crystallised benefits to annuity uses the OMO method and are not classed as a transfer.   Uncrystallised to annuity (where the annuity provider pays TFC) uses the transfer method.

The FCA also muddy the water as they refer to a personal pension  to personal pension as a "switch" or "conversion" depending on what is being done.   Transfer is reserved for DB to DC.

It's like playing terminology bingo.

cfw1994

dunstonh said:

Is this something anyone else has noticed?

yes.    

Is it normal to change like that?

The NGP range was originally a Friends Provident product.  It was set up on systems run by Friends Provident and controlled out of Salisbury.        When Aviva bought Friends Life, a lot of the online functionality on ex Friends Provident and ex AXA Sun Life plans was removed.   Things would start being turned off as they tried to move plans onto the Aviva systems (of which there are multiple due to other mergers and buyouts).

The NGP product is long in the tooth.   It launched in 2001 and was coded using 1990s systems and coding.  It had a SIPP bolt-on added in 2007 with some schemes.   Its not compatible with current Aviva systems.

Spending millions on a product type that has an ever-decreasing number of policyholders is not cost-effective, and, just like other legacy plans, it becomes cheaper to either transfer the policy to a modern plan or let the customer move it away if they don't want to stay with Aviva.      For IFAs, Aviva offers discounts on the platform charge when you move from Aviva Life & Pension plans to the Aviva platform.  I don't know if they do the same if you use the direct-to-client version.   However, even if they don't, you will probably find that the Aviva platform offered D2C is a better value than the NGP pension and has a whole of market fund selection.    However, if you self select then its likely other D2C platforms are better suited to you.       A modern D2C whole of market platform vs a late 90s coded personal pension is like chalk and cheese.

On that point: does anyone (maybe @dunstonh!) know if it would let me move half to one platform, and half to another?   I know it is in Origo, & the target would also use that, to keep things 'simple'.

No. You cannot partial transfer crystallised funds.

Ah, very helpful, thanks (& to the others pointing out partial annuities are an option).
I was with it from when it was Friends Life, so knew some of that history 👍

Odd how you aren't allowed to move part of a crystallised pot - any reason for that?

Likely why my relative had to move from their older Aviva DC pot to a new Aviva SIPP in order to be able to take their TFLS *and* allow for regular future withdrawals - their older Aviva pension would not let them do that, but they are with one that now will.

Sounds like I need to investigate alternative platforms.
As a partially related aside, I was with a pal yesterday who had moved out to Vanguard, but then across to Interactive Investor - he told me holding Vanguard funds was cheaper to do from within II (no reason to doubt him, although it sounded mildly odd!).

Some research ahead for me 🧐

Thanks again

Albermarle

cfw1994 said:

dunstonh said:

Is this something anyone else has noticed?

yes.    

Is it normal to change like that?

The NGP range was originally a Friends Provident product.  It was set up on systems run by Friends Provident and controlled out of Salisbury.        When Aviva bought Friends Life, a lot of the online functionality on ex Friends Provident and ex AXA Sun Life plans was removed.   Things would start being turned off as they tried to move plans onto the Aviva systems (of which there are multiple due to other mergers and buyouts).

The NGP product is long in the tooth.   It launched in 2001 and was coded using 1990s systems and coding.  It had a SIPP bolt-on added in 2007 with some schemes.   Its not compatible with current Aviva systems.

Spending millions on a product type that has an ever-decreasing number of policyholders is not cost-effective, and, just like other legacy plans, it becomes cheaper to either transfer the policy to a modern plan or let the customer move it away if they don't want to stay with Aviva.      For IFAs, Aviva offers discounts on the platform charge when you move from Aviva Life & Pension plans to the Aviva platform.  I don't know if they do the same if you use the direct-to-client version.   However, even if they don't, you will probably find that the Aviva platform offered D2C is a better value than the NGP pension and has a whole of market fund selection.    However, if you self select then its likely other D2C platforms are better suited to you.       A modern D2C whole of market platform vs a late 90s coded personal pension is like chalk and cheese.

On that point: does anyone (maybe @dunstonh!) know if it would let me move half to one platform, and half to another?   I know it is in Origo, & the target would also use that, to keep things 'simple'.

No. You cannot partial transfer crystallised funds.

Ah, very helpful, thanks (& to the others pointing out partial annuities are an option).
I was with it from when it was Friends Life, so knew some of that history 👍

Odd how you aren't allowed to move part of a crystallised pot - any reason for that?

Likely why my relative had to move from their older Aviva DC pot to a new Aviva SIPP in order to be able to take their TFLS *and* allow for regular future withdrawals - their older Aviva pension would not let them do that, but they are with one that now will.

Sounds like I need to investigate alternative platforms.
As a partially related aside, I was with a pal yesterday who had moved out to Vanguard, but then across to Interactive Investor - he told me holding Vanguard funds was cheaper to do from within II (no reason to doubt him, although it sounded mildly odd!).

Some research ahead for me 🧐

Thanks again

The actual Vanguard funds will have the same % charge, but the II platform charge could work out cheaper than Vanguard if the pot is a decent size. 
II have a fixed charge, rather than a % one, so they get progressively better value the bigger the pot size.
However there some quirks as some % fee chargers ( not Vanguard) have caps on fees for certain kind of investments, which can make them even cheaper than II.