Capability issues after over 4 years absence, now only two years before retirement

Chris56000

My apologies for this long and somewhat technical post!

. . .I work for what was formally a small electronics firm that was taken over by a US owned Multinational some years ago.

On 15th November I will have been employed for ten years there.

On 21 May 2021 I was sent home by H.R. on "capability" grounds because of serious issues with the sight in my right eye – I work in Industrial Electronics Repair, much of which involves working with what are very minute electronics components called "surface mounted".

. . .I had a major operation on my right eye in 2023 followed by a long recovery period, this coupled by delays in occupational health assessments, etc., meant I only returned to work on a "phased" basis on 14 October this year (2025).

. . .When I returned to work I was given a practical "return to work" exercise which involved removing and refitting a number of standard types and these minute "surface mounted" components from.four scrap printed circuit boards.

. . . Unfortunately my managers weren't satisfied with these exercises, partly caused by the fact I was never given formal training on working with these minute "surface mounted" electronics that requires special techniques and tools to rework them and the tools provided were hopelessly inadequate – most are too small for the integrated circuit chips I was asked to remove and refit, or non–functional!

. . .I asked my managers for "surface mounted components" training and replacements for non–functioning tools over five years ago before I was sent home in May 2021 and I got the response "no you can't have training, you'll have to do the best you can with what there is!"

. . .I have also asked for an alternative type of electronics grade solder that doesn't leave an obvious flux deposit residue, but this was refused as well!

. . .(My manager will deny I asked them this but I have a very long memory and I KNOW I asked him about training and replacements for failed tools!)

. . . Unfortunately the results of the second "rework tests" on four further scrap boards, whilst better, were still not to the satisfaction of the two managers who inspected my test work!

. . .I have three points to ask the Forum Experts:-

1) Would my Employer have a reasonable cause to take disciplinary action against me for not performing these "printed circuit board exercises“ to their 100% satisfaction? We have never had formal instruction in our work, all I have had was a brief folder on electrical safety not related to the practical aspects of PCB rework procedures and a few basic informal notes written by a colleague who inspected my repair work in the past!

. . .They look for rework standards better than brand new manufacture, even "flux on the PCB" is a matter they're obsessed with, despite the electronics solder we work with and many modern PCB rework standards laid down specifically state "flux should NOT be cleaned off reworked boards as this helps protect the boards" – brand new boards from OEMs/suppliers have flux on them! Myself and colleagues have tried pointing this out to our managers but they refuse to listen!

2) I have only two years and three months now till retirement, far too short a time to be looking for and training in another electronics job, the possibility of getting another one on my area now is practically nil at my age – I'm 64 and 8 months now!

3) Would I be sanctioned by the DWP if I was dismissed/made redundant?

. . .With only just over two years before retirement, I honestly have to wonder if the whole debacle is worth it any more, my friends and sister have all said I should have given up electronics repair work years ago, the only reason I haven't is because I enjoy it as a home hobby, and also because of the DWP's severe sanctions on leaving a job "without good cause!"

. . .(The friend I live with at home is three months younger than me, works for the same employer on the bench adjacent to mine, doing exactly the same job as I do and he is even more fed up with it all than I am – he has to answer to the same managers as me, and he is treated the same as I am – the managers dislike both of us!)

elsien

With regards to your third point just wanted to say that dismissal on capability grounds is not redundancy. 

Grumpy_chap

Chris56000 said:

My apologies for this long and somewhat technical post!

. . .I work for what was formally a small electronics firm that was taken over by a US owned Multinational some years ago.

On 15th November I will have been employed for ten years there.

On 21 May 2021 I was sent home by H.R. on "capability" grounds because of serious issues with the sight in my right eye – I work in Industrial Electronics Repair, much of which involves working with what are very minute electronics components called "surface mounted".

. . .I had a major operation on my right eye in 2023 followed by a long recovery period, this coupled by delays in occupational health assessments, etc., meant I only returned to work on a "phased" basis on 14 October this year (2025).

. . .When I returned to work I was given a practical "return to work" exercise which involved removing and refitting a number of standard types and these minute "surface mounted" components from.four scrap printed circuit boards.

. . . Unfortunately my managers weren't satisfied with these exercises, partly caused by the fact I was never given formal training on working with these minute "surface mounted" electronics that requires special techniques and tools to rework them and the tools provided were hopelessly inadequate – most are too small for the integrated circuit chips I was asked to remove and refit, or non–functional!

. . .I asked my managers for "surface mounted components" training and replacements for non–functioning tools over five years ago before I was sent home in May 2021 and I got the response "no you can't have training, you'll have to do the best you can with what there is!"

. . .I have also asked for an alternative type of electronics grade solder that doesn't leave an obvious flux deposit residue, but this was refused as well!

. . .(My manager will deny I asked them this but I have a very long memory and I KNOW I asked him about training and replacements for failed tools!)

. . . Unfortunately the results of the second "rework tests" on four further scrap boards, whilst better, were still not to the satisfaction of the two managers who inspected my test work!

. . .I have three points to ask the Forum Experts:-

1) Would my Employer have a reasonable cause to take disciplinary action against me for not performing these "printed circuit board exercises“ to their 100% satisfaction? We have never had formal instruction in our work, all I have had was a brief folder on electrical safety not related to the practical aspects of PCB rework procedures and a few basic informal notes written by a colleague who inspected my repair work in the past!

. . .They look for rework standards better than brand new manufacture, even "flux on the PCB" is a matter they're obsessed with, despite the electronics solder we work with and many modern PCB rework standards laid down specifically state "flux should NOT be cleaned off reworked boards as this helps protect the boards" – brand new boards from OEMs/suppliers have flux on them! Myself and colleagues have tried pointing this out to our managers but they refuse to listen!

2) I have only two years and three months now till retirement, far too short a time to be looking for and training in another electronics job, the possibility of getting another one on my area now is practically nil at my age – I'm 64 and 8 months now!

3) Would I be sanctioned by the DWP if I was dismissed/made redundant?

. . .With only just over two years before retirement, I honestly have to wonder if the whole debacle is worth it any more, my friends and sister have all said I should have given up electronics repair work years ago, the only reason I haven't is because I enjoy it as a home hobby, and also because of the DWP's severe sanctions on leaving a job "without good cause!"

. . .(The friend I live with at home is three months younger than me, works for the same employer on the bench adjacent to mine, doing exactly the same job as I do and he is even more fed up with it all than I am – he has to answer to the same managers as me, and he is treated the same as I am – the managers dislike both of us!)

Has the company been paying you for the past 4 years but you not working?

Chris56000

. . .Not directly from themselves, I got 60% of salary under the Company's Group Protection Policy and I was also entitled to U.C./Housing Costs plus Support–Group E.S.A. from the DWP – I have repeatedly kept my Jobcentre Work Coach up–to–date with the progress of my health/eyesight, and they assured me they have taken into account my work situation and they get a download from H.M.R.C. every month as to what I received from the Employer's Insurer!

. . .I have had a recent letter from the DWP to say they have checked my ESA claim and there is no change to my current award!

Chris56000

. . .Formal training from specialist companies that deal with these minute "surface mounted" components I am expected to be 100% proficient at "reworking" costs hundreds of pounds per day – a two day course would be at least half my monthly salary, and the specialist tools needed to rework these minutely small electronic parts are in the range £1500-£5000, totally unaffordable for me – they are priced for specialist firms and repair centres to buy, not individual employees wanting to buy and learn how to use them in their own time – even if I wanted to, the costs of doing so would add up to a year's salary (and more!) easily!

itsthelittlethings

I very much doubt you would be sanctioned by DWP if you were dismissed on capability grounds in the kind of scenario you describe . Ditto redundancy although if you got some money it could affect means tested benefits. You should be eligible for new style JSA although as I don’t think that is means tested.

Marcon

Chris56000 said:

. . .Not directly from themselves, I got 60% of salary under the Company's Group Protection Policy and I was also entitled to U.C./Housing Costs plus Support–Group E.S.A. from the DWP – I have repeatedly kept my Jobcentre Work Coach up–to–date with the progress of my health/eyesight, and they assured me they have taken into account my work situation and they get a download from H.M.R.C. every month as to what I received from the Employer's Insurer!

. . .I have had a recent letter from the DWP to say they have checked my ESA claim and there is no change to my current award!

If you have a contractual entitlement to payments under your company's GPP, you need to check the terms of that policy. Unlikely you'll have a copy of the actual policy, but the main terms should be included in your terms and conditions (if you can't find them, ask HR). If you satisfy the terms for receiving payment under that policy, and haven't yet reached the point where payments terminate, why are you concerned that your employer would sack you?

Chris56000

. . .I think my employer has already decided to end the Income Protection Claim with their Insurer, and further to that, my manager sent me home on "garden leave" earlier this morning pending a further discussion with H.R., at which I have no doubt dismissal will follow!

. . .I said this morning at the meeting with him that I was willing to undertake further practice on scrap boards until I could meet their high (fussy!) standards of rework, (which as I said previously, is expected to be better than new manufacture!) but that was just waved aside!

. . .My friend from Sutton Coldfield whom I worked under for ten years at Dowding and Mill's Electronics Department (closed in 2010!) said he thinks the whole fiasco was a stitch–up on the part of management at my current employer!

PS!

. . .I did ask my manager "I worked on the same job from November 2015 to 2021 without any breaks except for Annual Leave and Sickness, so why is it suddenly a serious problem now and not then much earlier in my employment?"

. . .The reply was "That is the decision I have come to this morning and I'm not prepared to discuss it any further with you!"

EnPointe

it sounds very much  like the employer have been more than generous  in their accomodatiosn and now  nearly 5 years latewr have decided enough is a enough./ most employers even public sector would be looking to dismiss  or  Ill health retire  between 1 and 2 years  in 

Chris56000

. . .In answer to Member "EnPointe's" comments during the period I worked for my employer from November 2015 to May 2021 until I was sent home on eyesight grounds, it wasn't until May 2021 that they decided there was evidence of my eyesight being suspect, up until 2021 I had my work inspected by a manager (not the one that sent me home today) and it was always passed by him – other than "cleaning flux off the board" which I have already commented is not necessary under modern rework practices, and very occasionally asked to resolder a joint or two that he wasn't sure about!

. . .The issue I have is being deemed incapable from carrying out a "return to work" practical test, involving surface–mount repair, when I was given neither written instructions (these are quite expensive documents called IPC Standards which my employer wouldn't pay for!), nor provided with, or even offered, any practical training on the use of surface–mount rework tools, we were just expected to KNOW, and there was no requirement in the original job description when I applied for it that surface–mount skills were essential!

. . .Apart from this, as I have said before, a great many of the employer's tools were non–functional (and still are over five years after I reported them!) and requests for replacements are just waved aside, like everything else employees ask is in there!

Chris56000

. . .I should add that my salary, as of today is still only minimum wage (probably less than by now!) for what is (supposed to be!) a skilled electronics repair job that needs many years experience at, that most reasonable employers would expect to have to offer £30-35k even at basic levels of skill for!

. . .Even on minimum wage, for 40 hours per week full time, that works out at £25,396 p.a. and I don't think I am even getting that from this employer!

. .  (Does anyone else want to try a skilled electronics repair job paid minimum wage, with no on–the job training, laid down practical procedures, no practical support with adequate tools kept in working order, and issues brought to the attention of management not dealt with, not to mention management that takes a bullying attitude and encourages tale–telling? If that appeals then they can try my employer!)