Training cost repayment on resignation

Wookie1700

Hi all,
My Son has been working for a large estate agent chain and after 4 months he has been told by the branch manager that sales isn't for him. He hasn't been enjoying the job and has put in his notice. The question are-
Can they deduct training costs from his final wage?

Yes he signed the contract however, no signature - no job!
Up to £5000 is vague for a one week in house training course, He asked for a breakdown verbally and was told it would be £5000. He has submitted a letter to the HR department asking for a breakdown.

Employment contract -
REPAYMENT OF TRAINING COSTS In our engagement with you, we will pay for you to attend our [June Academy], in which we have paid for you to have bespoke training to start your career as a Residential Sales Consultant. In consideration of this, you agree that if your employment terminates after we have incurred liability for the cost of you doing so you will be liable to repay some or all of the fees, expenses and other costs (the "Costs") associated with such training courses, up to £5,000. If you resign from your employment, you shall repay us as follows: a) if you cease employment before you attend the training course but we have already incurred liability for the Costs, 100% of the Costs or such proportion of the Costs that we cannot recover shall be repaid; b) if you cease employment during the training course or within 12 months of completing the training course, 100% of the Costs shall be repaid. Thereafter, no repayment shall be required. You agree to us deducting the sums under this clause from your final salary or any outstanding payments due to you. If, after we have made any deductions from your final salary or any outstanding payments due to you (or it has not been possible to make such deductions for any reason), the Costs or any portion of them have not been fully repaid by you in accordance with this clause, you agree that you shall repay any outstanding Costs owed by you to us within 3 months of your employment termination date. We may, in our discretion, agree a repayment schedule with you. You agree that if we waive your obligation to repay the Costs under this clause, you will be solely responsible for any income or other tax payable as a result of the waiver and you shall indemnify us on a continuing basis in relation to any such tax. I agree to the above Terms and Conditions of Employment and the statement of terms and conditions.

marcia_

 So tell him to take back his resignation and wait till they let him go as his manager indicated 

El_Torro

The way that contract reads to me is that he is liable for the costs whether he resigns or is let go. Without knowing the full story I would be surprised if his manager accepted to cancel his resignation. 

He should really have stuck it out for 12 months so as not to be charged anything. Not very useful advice for your son, I know, but it may help others in a similar situation (before they resign). 

Wookie1700

Unfortunetly we think he was going to be let go as the manager was indicating so, he has found himself another job while waiting to be fired, then three other staff members resigned (in one week) leaving my Son as the only one in the job role and not getting fired.
My issue is - The "up to £5K" - not an exact figure.
Reading on the ACAS site this could be considered preventing him leaving the job.
Also the training was compulsary - no training, no job. 

Brie

The only time I've seen training costs needing to be repaid is when a company has suggested an employee pursue a certification of some sort that would allow them to progress in the company.  And there would be a known cost prior to taking the training (so not "up to £X" but £385.89 or whatever) that the company would pay and that would be repaid on a pro rata basis depending on when the employee left or was fired, but not if made redundant. 

I have never seen this applied when the training was in house.  That's like charging someone because some IT boffin had to spend time setting up his computer access, just part of working there.   

Savvy_Sue

Brie said:

The only time I've seen training costs needing to be repaid is when a company has suggested an employee pursue a certification of some sort that would allow them to progress in the company.  And there would be a known cost prior to taking the training (so not "up to £X" but £385.89 or whatever) that the company would pay and that would be repaid on a pro rata basis depending on when the employee left or was fired, but not if made redundant. 

I have never seen this applied when the training was in house.  That's like charging someone because some IT boffin had to spend time setting up his computer access, just part of working there.   

I'd agree with this, because it doesn't sound to me as this 'in-house' training is going to be any use to any other employer. 

However, getting out of having to pay it may involve a struggle. 

Is he in a trade union? 

Do you have legal cover on your home or car insurance? (NB I'm perhaps wrongly assuming he is living at home: if he's not, it's his own insurance that's relevant, and if he is, I'm not sure your son would be covered under your policy, but since the initial approach is likely to be a phone call you might get an indication.)

Has he browsed around the ACAS website to see what that has to say about training costs?

Marcon

Brie said:

I have never seen this applied when the training was in house.  That's like charging someone because some IT boffin had to spend time setting up his computer access, just part of working there.   

The fact you've not seen something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

In any case, it's unclear from the post that the training was in house:

Wookie1700 said:

Employment contract -
REPAYMENT OF TRAINING COSTS In our engagement with you, we will pay for you to attend our [June Academy], in which we have paid for you to have bespoke training to start your career as a Residential Sales Consultant. 

Wookie1700

Thanks for the replies. 
The training was in-house at their head office and was his first week with the company. 
He isn't in a union, is it too late to join one for the potential fight ahead? He finishes on Saturday. 

Savvy_Sue

Wookie1700 said:

He isn't in a union, is it too late to join one for the potential fight ahead? He finishes on Saturday. 

Yes, technically, but some will give some advice to a very new member.