IHT implications when returning a gift?

GreyMetalWizard

Keep_pedalling said:

GreyMetalWizard said:

Keep_pedalling said:

You won’t be liable for IHT but his estate will be. Hypothetically it could double count in his estate if he dies within 7 years of the original gift as gifting it back does not undo the gift.  If could als double count in your estate if you inherit it back. You also may have a CGT liability on any transfer you make.

Who has been receiving then rental since he gifted it to you? 

Thanks for the reply. I was concerned about this. That the gift is permanently on the estate. Even if returned. Have you got a reference for that please?

The receipt of a gifted property can be liable to paying IHT, not the estate if the value of it is high enough. He has given multiple properties away so has used the allowances ( as I understand it) .

If you give it back it remains part of your estate for the next 7 years so it could cost your loved ones to be on the end of an IHT liability on an asset you no longer own.

Your father’s estate potentially has a double liability on the house, although I am unable to find anything to back that up as I could find nothing that covers the regifting of gifts on the web (probably because no one does it). He would need to take professional advice on that situation. 

Frankly as he does not need it back for financial reasons I would simply decline his request and avoid all the potential complications. 

Thanks for following up. I appreciate it. 

I found one example in the tax manual about a person who got gifted 100,000 by their dad, but then loaned their dad 50,000 back . 

Yes, I had not considered MY estate if I die in 7 years after the re-gift! Oh gosh. I'd best stop eating all this read meat and start exercising. ;-)

Yes, I'm reading about Double Liability / charge relief in the IHT Manual  right now.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm14711

Declining his request would be the start of bigger problems...

Thank you.

lincroft1710

If the house is in your name, it is yours. Your father can want it back till the cows come home, it is yours now and you are under no legal obligation to return it. Only if the gift came with terms and conditions (e,g. you visit him every Sunday afternoon and also cut his lawn when needed) and you did not adhere to these would your father have a possible window for suing for the return of the property.

Keep_pedalling

GreyMetalWizard said:

Keep_pedalling said:

GreyMetalWizard said:

Keep_pedalling said:

You won’t be liable for IHT but his estate will be. Hypothetically it could double count in his estate if he dies within 7 years of the original gift as gifting it back does not undo the gift.  If could als double count in your estate if you inherit it back. You also may have a CGT liability on any transfer you make.

Who has been receiving then rental since he gifted it to you? 

Thanks for the reply. I was concerned about this. That the gift is permanently on the estate. Even if returned. Have you got a reference for that please?

The receipt of a gifted property can be liable to paying IHT, not the estate if the value of it is high enough. He has given multiple properties away so has used the allowances ( as I understand it) .

If you give it back it remains part of your estate for the next 7 years so it could cost your loved ones to be on the end of an IHT liability on an asset you no longer own.

Your father’s estate potentially has a double liability on the house, although I am unable to find anything to back that up as I could find nothing that covers the regifting of gifts on the web (probably because no one does it). He would need to take professional advice on that situation. 

Frankly as he does not need it back for financial reasons I would simply decline his request and avoid all the potential complications. 

Thanks for following up. I appreciate it. 

I found one example in the tax manual about a person who got gifted 100,000 by their dad, but then loaned their dad 50,000 back . 

Yes, I had not considered MY estate if I die in 7 years after the re-gift! Oh gosh. I'd best stop eating all this read meat and start exercising. ;-)

Yes, I'm reading about Double Liability / charge relief in the IHT Manual  right now.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm14711

Declining his request would be the start of bigger problems...

Thank you.

It sounds like your father is a bully and this is more of a demand rather than a request. Would it really cause you more problems if you told him where to go with this one?

GreyMetalWizard

Keep_pedalling said:

GreyMetalWizard said:

Keep_pedalling said:

GreyMetalWizard said:

Keep_pedalling said:

You won’t be liable for IHT but his estate will be. Hypothetically it could double count in his estate if he dies within 7 years of the original gift as gifting it back does not undo the gift.  If could als double count in your estate if you inherit it back. You also may have a CGT liability on any transfer you make.

Who has been receiving then rental since he gifted it to you? 

Thanks for the reply. I was concerned about this. That the gift is permanently on the estate. Even if returned. Have you got a reference for that please?

The receipt of a gifted property can be liable to paying IHT, not the estate if the value of it is high enough. He has given multiple properties away so has used the allowances ( as I understand it) .

If you give it back it remains part of your estate for the next 7 years so it could cost your loved ones to be on the end of an IHT liability on an asset you no longer own.

Your father’s estate potentially has a double liability on the house, although I am unable to find anything to back that up as I could find nothing that covers the regifting of gifts on the web (probably because no one does it). He would need to take professional advice on that situation. 

Frankly as he does not need it back for financial reasons I would simply decline his request and avoid all the potential complications. 

Thanks for following up. I appreciate it. 

I found one example in the tax manual about a person who got gifted 100,000 by their dad, but then loaned their dad 50,000 back . 

Yes, I had not considered MY estate if I die in 7 years after the re-gift! Oh gosh. I'd best stop eating all this read meat and start exercising. ;-)

Yes, I'm reading about Double Liability / charge relief in the IHT Manual  right now.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm14711

Declining his request would be the start of bigger problems...

Thank you.

It sounds like your father is a bully and this is more of a demand rather than a request. Would it really cause you more problems if you told him where to go with this one?

It honestly would. His relationship with Money is a corrupted one. I deeply regret the position I find myself in.


I believe my hope is to sign it back to him, pay the CGT and fees. Not die in 7 years, and hope that the double charge exemption can be arranged upon his death. 

Thanks all. 

Grumpy_chap

GreyMetalWizard said:

I believe my hope is to sign it back to him, pay the CGT and fees. Not die in 7 years, and hope that the double charge exemption can be arranged upon his death. 

Thanks all. 

Is the situation when the OP's father passes on going to be a concern for the OP?

Given the OP said:

"Due to a breakdown in relationship he wants it back."

Does the OP remain a Beneficiary or Executor in the Will?

Sea_Shell

GreyMetalWizard said:

Keep_pedalling said:

GreyMetalWizard said:

Keep_pedalling said:

GreyMetalWizard said:

Keep_pedalling said:

You won’t be liable for IHT but his estate will be. Hypothetically it could double count in his estate if he dies within 7 years of the original gift as gifting it back does not undo the gift.  If could als double count in your estate if you inherit it back. You also may have a CGT liability on any transfer you make.

Who has been receiving then rental since he gifted it to you? 

Thanks for the reply. I was concerned about this. That the gift is permanently on the estate. Even if returned. Have you got a reference for that please?

The receipt of a gifted property can be liable to paying IHT, not the estate if the value of it is high enough. He has given multiple properties away so has used the allowances ( as I understand it) .

If you give it back it remains part of your estate for the next 7 years so it could cost your loved ones to be on the end of an IHT liability on an asset you no longer own.

Your father’s estate potentially has a double liability on the house, although I am unable to find anything to back that up as I could find nothing that covers the regifting of gifts on the web (probably because no one does it). He would need to take professional advice on that situation. 

Frankly as he does not need it back for financial reasons I would simply decline his request and avoid all the potential complications. 

Thanks for following up. I appreciate it. 

I found one example in the tax manual about a person who got gifted 100,000 by their dad, but then loaned their dad 50,000 back . 

Yes, I had not considered MY estate if I die in 7 years after the re-gift! Oh gosh. I'd best stop eating all this read meat and start exercising. ;-)

Yes, I'm reading about Double Liability / charge relief in the IHT Manual  right now.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm14711

Declining his request would be the start of bigger problems...

Thank you.

It sounds like your father is a bully and this is more of a demand rather than a request. Would it really cause you more problems if you told him where to go with this one?

It honestly would. His relationship with Money is a corrupted one. I deeply regret the position I find myself in.


I believe my hope is to sign it back to him, pay the CGT and fees. Not die in 7 years, and hope that the double charge exemption can be arranged upon his death. 

Thanks all. 

What other hold does he have over you?

He sounds financially controlling.

Do you need him in your life?

Does he live round the corner, and so could make your life difficult?

GreyMetalWizard

Sea_Shell said:

GreyMetalWizard said:

Keep_pedalling said:

GreyMetalWizard said:

Keep_pedalling said:

GreyMetalWizard said:

Keep_pedalling said:

You won’t be liable for IHT but his estate will be. Hypothetically it could double count in his estate if he dies within 7 years of the original gift as gifting it back does not undo the gift.  If could als double count in your estate if you inherit it back. You also may have a CGT liability on any transfer you make.

Who has been receiving then rental since he gifted it to you? 

Thanks for the reply. I was concerned about this. That the gift is permanently on the estate. Even if returned. Have you got a reference for that please?

The receipt of a gifted property can be liable to paying IHT, not the estate if the value of it is high enough. He has given multiple properties away so has used the allowances ( as I understand it) .

If you give it back it remains part of your estate for the next 7 years so it could cost your loved ones to be on the end of an IHT liability on an asset you no longer own.

Your father’s estate potentially has a double liability on the house, although I am unable to find anything to back that up as I could find nothing that covers the regifting of gifts on the web (probably because no one does it). He would need to take professional advice on that situation. 

Frankly as he does not need it back for financial reasons I would simply decline his request and avoid all the potential complications. 

Thanks for following up. I appreciate it. 

I found one example in the tax manual about a person who got gifted 100,000 by their dad, but then loaned their dad 50,000 back . 

Yes, I had not considered MY estate if I die in 7 years after the re-gift! Oh gosh. I'd best stop eating all this read meat and start exercising. ;-)

Yes, I'm reading about Double Liability / charge relief in the IHT Manual  right now.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm14711

Declining his request would be the start of bigger problems...

Thank you.

It sounds like your father is a bully and this is more of a demand rather than a request. Would it really cause you more problems if you told him where to go with this one?

It honestly would. His relationship with Money is a corrupted one. I deeply regret the position I find myself in.


I believe my hope is to sign it back to him, pay the CGT and fees. Not die in 7 years, and hope that the double charge exemption can be arranged upon his death. 

Thanks all. 

What other hold does he have over you?

He sounds financially controlling.

Do you need him in your life?

Does he live round the corner, and so could make your life difficult?

Thanks for the reply 

Yes, he is financial controlling . No, I want him and the house out life.

Yes, he is local and would make life for my family very difficult.


So, back to the simply question:

If a gifted property is gifted back to my father, and he dies in less than 7 years am I still liable to IHT. (He will have used up his nil rate band already so normally the gift recipient  pays).

Thanks.