Probate when you only have "savings"

JumpingWombats

My mother has recently died and has left a will, of which I am a named Trustee.  Apart from a few belongings of minimal value, having lived in a care home for over 7 years, she left money in a bank (current account and an ISA) and NS&I Premium Bonds, so practical terms only has savings. 

The bank released her funds after some basic security checks - I managed her account prior to her death, as I had LPoA and had been requested by my mother to manage her account.

I am looking to release her funds held in Premium Bonds - similar value as her bank funds, and again I managed her account prior to her death, as I had LPoA and had been requested by my mother to manage her account, so could have withdrawn the funds in her final days.

My question is, in my late Mothers situation with only savings, is there a legal requirement for Grant of Probate? and if so which specific law is it? or is it a choice made by each individual financial body (which is what it appears to be)?

Thank you

Note: NS&I quoted me the Administration of Estates Act (Small Payments) 1965 and saying Probate is a legal requirement - and I don't read it that way.

Kim_13

Each institution will have its own limit as to what it will release without probate. This is £5K with NS&I.

dunstonh

My question is, in my late Mothers situation with only savings, is there a legal requirement for Grant of Probate?

There is no standard "small value" claims limit.  Some will be as low as £5,000 (and that is NS&I's limit but they have been known to apply discretion of there are no other assets).  Some will be as high as £70,000.

In theory, if one institution requires probate, then it should be supplied to the rest.    However, in reality, many institutions gloss over that.     

Rodders53

Your legal costs to challenge and fight NS&I interpretation will far outweigh the cost of obtaining Probate... and take a very long time to go through the Courts.  I'd doubt they have it wrong though - ask some Barrister friends?

Probate is simple enough to DIY if there is a Will. Cost is £300.  Simple estate it can be all done online and then its quite quick too.

You can leave the Premium Bonds in the Prize Draws for up to one year if you (and other Beneficiaries want/agree).

Heedtheadvice

Sorry to hear of your loss. Never an easy time.

 Once again we are asked for suggestions and responses are posted when we do not know where the deceased lived. It is often seemingly assumed to be in England (and usually is) but the legal Jurisdiction should be ascertained  before posting comments.

As an example Probate in England is not always required ( it is legal support to back up actions defined in the will.....I'm sure that is not strictly correct and has nuances too). 

In Scotland there is no Probate and the legal equivalent is Confirmation. Not always necessary to have Confirmation for the Executor(s) to act but if the Estate value is over £36k [ edit corrected from £35k] or more ( from memory! checked again) irrespective of which country the parts of the Estate reside then Confirmation is  nearly always a requirement.

That does not affect what individual organisations may require as proof thar the Executor can deal with them [edit reworded and see posts below].

It should also be pointed out that PoA ceases on death so although it may seem pertinent or relevant the Power has ceased in favour of the Executorship duties.

EDIT: Should add that these comments are not aimed at the OP but posters. It is a difficult enough time having a loss and also trying to deal with an Estate so it is very understandable that some thread discussion will result in  information coming to light that is needed to give help and also stop potentially misleading others in a similar position.

BreakingGlass

Just for info, the Probate process seems quite quick at the moment.  My mother passed away in July; we applied for Probate on 17 Sep and posted the original will to OPG that same day.  Despite a hiccup (where we had to go back to the original will-drafting-solicitor to confirm that incorrect paragraph numbering was just a typo) we heard by email that Probate had been approved on 14 October and received the Probate paperwork today.  Less than a month!

Probate was in England, and the Estate comprised half a house (tenants in common) plus savings of about the same value.

Keep_pedalling

Assuming this is in England or Wales applying or probate or letters of administration (which is basically the same process where there is no will) is fairly straight forward. If Scotland confirmation is required which is more complicated especially if the estate is over £36K.

If you need help with the application post your questions over on the deaths, funerals and probate board.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/deaths-funerals-probate

jem16

Heedtheadvice said:

In Scotland there is no Probate and the legal equivalent is Confirmation. Not always necessary to have Confirmation for the Executor(s) to act but if the Estate value is £35k or more ( from memory!) irrespective of which country the parts of the Estate reside then Confirmation is  a legal requirement.

That does not affect what individual organisations may require proof.

Confirmation in Scotland is not a legal requirement just because an estate is over £35k. The rules on whether or not you need Confirmation are basically the same as Probate in England. It’s all down to what the assets are and whether or not the banks etc will release them. Apart from NS&I this is usually £50k.

How Confirmation is handled, should it be required, is different for small estates up to £35k and large estates over £35k but that’s all. 

Heedtheadvice

Thanks Jem for that comment on the Scottish system to correct my understanding ( which was  based upon recent Estates I have been involved in. ) So,

Just done a bit more research  and you are correct ( as far as I can find ) that Confirmation in itself is not a legal requirement .

For  small Estate ( total assets £36k or less ) it is usually not required.

Over that figure it is  nearly always required to give proof that the Executor can act.

From Weirs law:

"

Confirmation is almost always required when the person who died held one (or more) of the following assets:

• £20,000 or more (although the figure can vary from bank to bank)
• Property/land held in their name or jointly without a survivorship destination.
• Shareholdings.
• Premium Bonds.
• Some insurance and pension policies
• Investments.

"

I will correct my above post. 

It just goes to confirm posts are not gospel but can be based upon just understanding, opinion and experience so 'reader beware'.

However similar the requirements of Probate/Confirmation can be it is best to know that there are differences!

JumpingWombats

Thank you for your comments.  I should have said I am in England.  

My concern, and it seems legitimate, is that NS&I were Misrepresenting the Law by stating Grant of Probate is a legal requirement.  Sure, I know they have the right to request Probate, but that isn't the same, in my eyes, as saying it is a Legal Requirement.

I have had an apology from NS&I and one of my complaints upheld, but not sure which, as their letters are not written to be intelligible.  So I still have to apply for Probate - and while £300 may not be a lot to some, it is still an unnecessary expense, which could have been avoided by chasing them in when death was imminent. 

My point about LPoA is, that I should have been a known person to them, and that the details correlate with the Will, and therefore low risk - after all isn't it about risk management? And I do recognise that LPoA ended with the death of my mother.

JumpingWombats

should read ..that NS&I may have been Misrepresenting....  sorry can't work out how to edit the original