Employee going part time - holiday entitlement

FloBoJangles

Hi,

I'm having a mind blank.

We have a full time employee working 37.5 hours per week over 5 days. Her holiday entitlement is currently 28 days plus bank holidays.

Next year she will reduce her hours to 33.5 hours per week over 4 days. What should her holiday entitlement become?

If it's based on number of days worked, she has dropped from 5 day per week to 4
so is her holiday entitlement 4/5th ie 28 / 5 x 4 = 22.4 days

Or it it based on hours worked?
28 / 37.5 x 33.5 = 25 days

I'm not too concerned about bank holiday as they are worked out separately but which of the above is fair?

Thanks

Isthisforreal99

The hourly method is used at my place of work (large public sector organisation)

DE_612183

Hours worked I would think - they are actually only dropping 4 hours which is really 1/2 a day not a whole day.

As an aside in the civil service you also get the bank holidays apportioned as well - but you have to book them off - the net outcome is you get some of yo0ur holiday entitlement utilised to cover the full bank holiday.

Andy_L

Because she's changed both number of days and the length of each fay then, as isthisforreal says, its much easier to work in hours rather than days

28 days + 8 BH (assuming England) = total entitlement of 36 days


FT staff work 37.5/5 hours per day = 7.5 hours/day

ie FT holiday entitlement is 36 x 7.5 hours = 270 hours per annum

so PT staff gets 33.5/37.5  x 270 hours pa = 241.2 hours pa

since their working day is 33.5/4 = 8.375 hours they get 28.8 of their longer days off per year

DE_612183

Andy_L said:

Because she's changed both number of days and the length of each fay then, as isthisforreal says, its much easier to work in hours rather than days

28 days + 8 BH (assuming England) = total entitlement of 36 days


FT staff work 37.5/5 hours per day = 7.5 hours/day

ie FT holiday entitlement is 36 x 7.5 hours = 270 hours per annum

so PT staff gets 33.5/37.5  x 270 hours pa = 241.2 hours pa

since their working day is 33.5/4 = 8.375 hours they get 28.8 of their longer days off per year

But from that they also have to take the 8 bank holidays so get left with 20.8 days of leave they can take on a flexible basis - that doesn't seem right.

I would say it's 36 / 37.5 * 33.5 = 32.16 , then take off the 8 bank holidays = 24.16 days or 24 days and about 1 hour 10 minutes.

Brie

Bank holidays would still be rated as 7.5 hours which is why it's best to do all the calculations in hours rather than try to switch to days.

So rejigging Andy's numbers....

28 days + 8 BH (assuming England) = total entitlement of 36 days


FT staff work 37.5/5 hours per day = 7.5 hours/day

ie FT holiday entitlement is 36 x 7.5 hours = 270 hours per annum

so PT staff gets 33.5/37.5  x 270 hours pa = 241.2 hours pa

But then

241.2 hours pa - (8x7.5) = 181.2 hours holiday to be booked.  

We always used a bit of leeway on the portions of a day - so for .2 of a day it might mean being able to leave mid afternoon one day.  Handy if working Christmas eve or similar. 

Andy_L

DE_612183 said:

Andy_L said:

Because she's changed both number of days and the length of each fay then, as isthisforreal says, its much easier to work in hours rather than days

28 days + 8 BH (assuming England) = total entitlement of 36 days


FT staff work 37.5/5 hours per day = 7.5 hours/day

ie FT holiday entitlement is 36 x 7.5 hours = 270 hours per annum

so PT staff gets 33.5/37.5  x 270 hours pa = 241.2 hours pa

since their working day is 33.5/4 = 8.375 hours they get 28.8 of their longer days off per year

But from that they also have to take the 8 bank holidays so get left with 20.8 days of leave they can take on a flexible basis - that doesn't seem right.

why not?

FT staff get 36 days. But from that they also have to take the 8 bank holidays so get left with 28 days of leave they can take on a flexible basis.

I would say it's 36 / 37.5 * 33.5 = 32.16 , then take off the 8 bank holidays = 24.16 days or 24 days and about 1 hour 10 minutes.

She is doing 33.5/36ths the hours of full time staff (0.93 FTE). Does it not seem right that she gets 33.5/36ths of the time off that they do

If she was working the same length days as FT staff then (ie just dropped to a 4 day week). yes then she would get 33.5/37.5 x 36 days = 32.16 days off. BUT those days are shorter than the days she actually works. 

Andy_L

Brie said:

Bank holidays would still be rated as 7.5 hours which is why it's best to do all the calculations in hours rather than try to switch to days.

So rejigging Andy's numbers....

28 days + 8 BH (assuming England) = total entitlement of 36 days


FT staff work 37.5/5 hours per day = 7.5 hours/day

ie FT holiday entitlement is 36 x 7.5 hours = 270 hours per annum

so PT staff gets 33.5/37.5  x 270 hours pa = 241.2 hours pa

But then

241.2 hours pa - (8x7.5) = 181.2 hours holiday to be booked.  

We always used a bit of leeway on the portions of a day - so for .2 of a day it might mean being able to leave mid afternoon one day.  Handy if working Christmas eve or similar. 

but then you get yourself in a terrible mess when a BH falls on a non-working day. ETA, as seen on various other threads where people ask how it should be worked out

YBR

I'm going to contradict PP and say if holiday is booked in days (and half days) rather than hours, it's pro-rata in days.

For my former employer the sum was 

(<annual leave entitlement> plus <bank hols>) multiplied by <proportion of days worked>

With your numbers, assuming England,  (28 days + 8 BH ) * 4/5 = 28.8 and round up to 29 inc. BH.

Then if a bank holiday was on my working day I had to book holiday or work it, although in reality my manager was happy for me to switch which day I worked that week. 

- with BHs not being evenly distributed vs the day your employee takes off it may not seem equitable

- perhaps either you or your employee do not have the flexibility to switch working day as I did.

- you might not be able to accommodate one employee choosing to work a BH to save their holiday, although I've also worked for employers who force their staff to save holiday allowance for works shut-down days so that's a valid option.

If you're happy to give the full BH regardless then it would be 28 * 4/5 =22.4 (call it 22 and half days). 

saajan_12

DE_612183 said:

Andy_L said:

Because she's changed both number of days and the length of each fay then, as isthisforreal says, its much easier to work in hours rather than days

28 days + 8 BH (assuming England) = total entitlement of 36 days


FT staff work 37.5/5 hours per day = 7.5 hours/day

ie FT holiday entitlement is 36 x 7.5 hours = 270 hours per annum

so PT staff gets 33.5/37.5  x 270 hours pa = 241.2 hours pa

since their working day is 33.5/4 = 8.375 hours they get 28.8 of their longer days off per year

But from that they also have to take the 8 bank holidays so get left with 20.8 days of leave they can take on a flexible basis - that doesn't seem right.

I would say it's 36 / 37.5 * 33.5 = 32.16 , then take off the 8 bank holidays = 24.16 days or 24 days and about 1 hour 10 minutes.

You're assuming they would otherwise be working on all 8 bank holidays. OP doesn't state what the working pattern is, but at least 1 or more wouldn't be on the day 'off'. Eg if they are working Mon-Thurs, then Good Friday and some Xmas/New years would fall on a Friday. So with all the bank holidays off, that would only use 5-7 of the annual leave. Also those times when a bank holiday does fall on a working day, they get a larger portion of their working hours off that week. 

Savvy_Sue

I'd say that if this change is happening part way through the leave year, you need to work out in hours 

• The leave entitlement for the period they were working f/t
• LESS the leave entitlement they have actually taken
• PLUS the leave entitlement for the remainder of the leave year
• LESS the hours for each bank holiday they won't be working

If their new 4 day week has the same number of hours each day, that makes things simpler ...