The inevitable pre-budget speculation on pensions

artyboy

Just waiting till after the 8am press conference for this thread to explode again...

MetaPhysical

IHT at 40% and cutting in at £325k - a number that has not moved since 2009 - is an abomination in my view.  True, most don't pay it.  However, most know about it and they know that the government take a massive swipe at you after you die.  This leaves a "plague on all your houses" attitude in the national consciousness when it comes to tax - it is yet another sniping stealth tax rather than just tax people "properly" with Income Tax, NI, VAT or whatever in a clear and understandable way that would indeed happen if we could have a grown up tax conversation in this country.  It is eminently human, passionate and reasonable to want to leave what you worked for all your life to your offspring.  We seem to like to punish this notion of passing on to your children what is modestly YOURS in the UK more than anyplace else. This is not some abstract concept, your wealth is YOURS and YOU should be free to do what YOU wish with what YOU WORKED for without state meddling!

BlackKnightMonty

MetaPhysical said:

IHT at 40% and cutting in at £325k - a number that has not moved since 2009 - is an abomination in my view.  True, most don't pay it.  However, most know about it and they know that the government take a massive swipe at you after you die.  This leaves a "plague on all your houses" attitude in the national consciousness when it comes to tax - it is yet another sniping stealth tax rather than just tax people "properly" with Income Tax, NI, VAT or whatever in a clear and understandable way that would indeed happen if we could have a grown up tax conversation in this country.  It is eminently human, passionate and reasonable to want to leave what you worked for all your life to your offspring.  We seem to like to punish this notion of passing on to your children what is modestly YOURS in the UK more than anyplace else. This is not some abstract concept, your wealth is YOURS and YOU should be free to do what YOU wish with what YOU WORKED for without state meddling!

Personally I would drop IHT down to 20% but tie it into the personal allowance.

This means nearly everyone would pay IHT. Which would be a useful exercise in educating the masses on what IHT means.

Cobbler_tone

artyboy said:

Just waiting till after the 8am press conference for this thread to explode again...

Didn't really tell us much, other than more or less confirming that taxes are being increased, which we pretty much knew. The fact that there was even a 'pre-budget speech' was enough to allude that 'bad news' was on the horizon. Reminded me of those briefings during Covid.
Could be a ground breaking moment for many, to see an income tax increase for the first time in their life.

If they can blame everything on what's gone in before, take extra money off everyone to sort it out, sort it out and then be in a position to get elected again...it would be the biggest masterstroke in political history.

As it is....most people don't lose sleep over national debt when they are checking their payslip. That's just a fact.

Moonwolf

I did see one suggestion for IHT that I quite liked, I think on twitter back in the day. It gets around the “I earned it” argument.

Keep a record of everything that people inherit in their lifetime. You can pass on 100% of everything above that figure but IHT is taxed at 100% otherwise.

Basically you can pass on anything you have earned by your own hard work, but it can only be passed on once, after that it is taxed.

If you inherit £1m and leave £800k it all goes in tax, while if you leave £1.5m the first £1m is taxed, the £500k is passed on tax free. If you inherited nothing and are self made you can pass it all on.

Not sure if it is practical but it fits my centre leftish philosophy.

artyboy

BlackKnightMonty said:

MetaPhysical said:

IHT at 40% and cutting in at £325k - a number that has not moved since 2009 - is an abomination in my view.  True, most don't pay it.  However, most know about it and they know that the government take a massive swipe at you after you die.  This leaves a "plague on all your houses" attitude in the national consciousness when it comes to tax - it is yet another sniping stealth tax rather than just tax people "properly" with Income Tax, NI, VAT or whatever in a clear and understandable way that would indeed happen if we could have a grown up tax conversation in this country.  It is eminently human, passionate and reasonable to want to leave what you worked for all your life to your offspring.  We seem to like to punish this notion of passing on to your children what is modestly YOURS in the UK more than anyplace else. This is not some abstract concept, your wealth is YOURS and YOU should be free to do what YOU wish with what YOU WORKED for without state meddling!

Personally I would drop IHT down to 20% but tie it into the personal allowance.

This means nearly everyone would pay IHT. Which would be a useful exercise in educating the masses on what IHT means.

Oooh, yes, let's make the masses sensitive to a tax that, right now, only affects a relative minority that we can gouge at will with limited fallout.

Sounds like political suicide, so very much in keeping with the current approach.

snarffie

MetaPhysical said:

IHT at 40% and cutting in at £325k - a number that has not moved since 2009 - is an abomination in my view.  True, most don't pay it.  However, most know about it and they know that the government take a massive swipe at you after you die.  This leaves a "plague on all your houses" attitude in the national consciousness when it comes to tax - it is yet another sniping stealth tax rather than just tax people "properly" with Income Tax, NI, VAT or whatever in a clear and understandable way that would indeed happen if we could have a grown up tax conversation in this country.  It is eminently human, passionate and reasonable to want to leave what you worked for all your life to your offspring.  We seem to like to punish this notion of passing on to your children what is modestly YOURS in the UK more than anyplace else. This is not some abstract concept, your wealth is YOURS and YOU should be free to do what YOU wish with what YOU WORKED for without state meddling!

I do agree that income tax is probably the fairest and most transparent way of taxing people. NONE of the parties will publicly face up to this - I hope labour bite the bullet and go for it, but I fear they will mess it up somehow!

However.  Despite having a decent amount that will fall under IHT when I expire, I still believe that a redistribution of wealth after death is a good thing, otherwise wealth continues to flow incrementally upwards, increasing inequality. The thresholds are perfectly reasonable at the moment and could even do with tweaking down a bit.  I will of course, do my best to reduce IHT within the tax rules of the day, but as it stands, the thresholds seem reasonable.

BlackKnightMonty

Reeves word salad was pretty clear.

More money for the unproductive and those on welfare, to be funded by those who work and are productive.

m_c_s

What was the point of holding a press conference which told us nothing. There is already so much speculation and no doubt people have been panicking about what could come and probably making poor financial decisions stirred up by that speculation. This now just amplifies the speculation and smacks of desperation. 

SouthCoastBoy

BlackKnightMonty said:

Reeves word salad was pretty clear.

More money for the unproductive and those on welfare, to be funded by those who work and are productive.

Yes, that is my sentiment as well. Then they wonder why the UK has a productivity problem?