Difficulties regarding our property after relationship split

dietcokepirate

Please note that I will be seeking out independent legal counsel, but in the meantime, I’m wondering if anyone else has been in a similar situation to this and/or can offer any advice. Please try to be mindful that this has been a super emotional time for me 

What happened:

My (40M) ex-partner and I (36F) co-own our home as tenants in common (we have a declaration of trust; I put down a £70k deposit, and he contributes 40% of the mortgage payments while I contribute 60%). We are currently 2 years and 8 months into a 5-year fixed term mortgage. We were together for 6 years, but sadly have now broken up due to revelations that he had been cheating etc. (eek!) He’s since been off gallivanting with one of the people he cheated on me with, which has only added to the heartache.

Given the emotional nature of everything, and for the sake of my mental health, I asked if he would consider moving out at all (letting him know that I'd obviously cover his portion of the mortgage if he did). He did not want to do this and said that he would only move out if he had money from the property.

What we proposed:

Now, I adore the house and would love the opportunity to stay living in it. However, I became self-employed relatively recently and consequently would not be able to formally remove him from the mortgage/deed at present (frustrating, as if I was still in my last salaried role then the whole transfer of equity/ownership thing would've been a breeze). So, we discussed and agreed upon a half-way house solution of sorts: I would pay him a sum from my savings equal to his equity, and he would move out. He would then be removed from the mortgage & deed later; I’d be responsible for any fees if I had to sell, and he wouldn't have any further financial claim. Our lender was agreeable to this proposal, so we obtained valuations etc. and jointly instructed a solicitor, who has now drafted a document (essentially a new declaration of trust which would replace the one we already have). I am also now looking for a permanent/salaried role to help make the solo mortgage journey a little easier!

The issue at hand:

My ex-partner has become terribly demanding and stubborn; he has said that he would like the document to have some sort of clause in it that stipulates that I need to remove him – or otherwise put the house up for sale – by March/April time. He even mentioned that I should pay him a penalty fee of £200 a month for every month the house wasn't on the market after this point! If we show any conflict of interest then the solicitor cannot act for us jointly anymore, but we will still need to pay him (something which my ex has said he won’t be helping with if I don’t agree to his terms). NB. I’m not even sure yet if his demands would be enforceable, and I’m conscious that mentioning such additions to the solicitor could also trigger the conflict-of-interest alarm.

The sum we’d calculated that I would pay him (i.e. his equity – based on an average house valuation, the remaining mortgage, and our respective contributions) was approximately £14k. However, I showed him a spreadsheet showing approximate costs we would face if selling the property at any point within our current mortgage term (with figures recalculated based on assumed sale price of the house, the early repayment charge amount, etc.), and if we were actually selling the house right now, the impact of his half of these fees/costs would bring his equity down from £14k to £5k! So, I said that what I'm offering is generous; I could consider a deadline, but it wouldn’t be particularly fair for me to do so unless he was willing to share in the hefty costs incurred by having to sell so soon. He simply stated that I should request that the clause be added and give him the £14k – or he won't sign it, and we'll put the house on the market. Apparently I am ‘going back on [my] word’ and according to him, any fees should be my problem and my problem alone, as I’m the one who wants to stay in the house. I mentioned that he’s technically the cause of this giant financial pickle, but he brushed me off, instead referencing the furnishings in the house I would be keeping. I told him that I paid for about 80% of the things in the house and that he never paid me back for his half of the £7500 stamp duty, so if he’s planning on leaving anything behind then it’s not fair to start splitting hairs – especially when the combined value of his purchases was far less than £3750.

Help!

It’s so miserable to be living like this, and I feel like I’m trapped! Personally, I think that I’m being accommodating already, and he’s not even helped with any of the admin. His parents aren’t happy with his behaviour but live abroad and have their own stresses to deal with right now (and they can’t exactly be expected to try to force their adult son to be reasonable). And my parents won’t even speak to him as they’re conscious that they would struggle to not get angry in his presence. I feel very isolated and stuck!

1. Part of me wants to just go ahead with what he wants for the sake of getting him to leave the house and then rush to find a new job. But I feel like I’d have then essentially allowed him to strong-arm me into handing over a large amount of money just to leave, yet I'd still be at the mercy of his demands – all while footing the bill!
2. My dad reckons that I should call his bluff, and go ‘Okay, let’s sell!’ He thinks that as soon as he has to actually do any of the work – along with the realisation that he won’t be getting £14k any time soon – he will backtrack. Either that – or I remind him that he can’t just expect me to agree to sell the house, and that he’s welcome to apply for an Order of Sale to be issued through the courts (which I’m told is neither a speedy nor a cheap endeavour). I’m not confrontational and hate conflict – and my mental health is already in tatters – but I do understand that maybe I should start giving him the same energy he’s now giving me...

Thanks in advance for any words of advice anyone can give!

Emmia

 Can you afford the mortgage in your current self-employment?

Do you have, or can you get the £14k* he's seeking? 

Personally, I think in the long run, getting this individual out of your life may turn out to be money well spent.


*There's a risk here, that the amount will rise, as he sounds like for some reason he wants to punish you / bleed you dry financially. 

Flugelhorn

I would do what I could to get rid of him from the house, he will only become more controlling - having said that TBH he probably has very little actual equity in the property - if you sold you might have to take a lower offer and yes he definitely needs to pay up for the stamp duty.

I suspect Dad is right - call his bluff and put the house on the market 

kimwp

I'd deduct the half of the stamp duty that he owes you and tell him to take the things he bought. But that might antagonise the situation. What is his motivation for being off the mortgage next year, is he planning on buying then? If you understand that, you might have a reason for him to be more compliant with your proposal.

ian1246

I think the ex is right in demanding a deadline for you to take on 100% the mortgage or be forced to sell.

Without one, what stops you paying him his £14,000 then keeping him on the mortgage for the next decade due to your own financial challenges preventing you being able to borrow a large enough mortgage? He'd be utterly screwed - unable to buy his own house (& thus loose out on future equity gain on his own property) whilst you'd benefit from his credit raising potential still tied into the property, with you benefitting from retaining the house - both as somewhere to live and in pocketing all the future equity gain (which he'd have no claim on due to the agreement).

The fact your taking issue with his wanting a deadline to take on the mortgage is one giant red flag that he may well face the scenario above.

You wouldn't be the first ex-partner to do that to an ex. We have numerous threads on this forum (& the relationship one) with that exact scenario - both recent and historic.

My advice would be to remove all emotion from this and look at it as a purely financial transaction - throwing that he's to blame for all of this into his face certainly won't help the situation. He's nothing more than a stranger to you now - and thats the angle how you need to approach all your dealings and proposed financial arrangement from.

The reality is if you can't afford to take on the mortgage you can't afford to live in the house without your ex's help - the ex is under no obligation to remain tied to a property which he'll have no claim on. That's essentially his position and its not an unreasonable one - the only counter is avoiding the early repayment fee's.

But ultimately if he decides he wants his share of the equity and an end to a mortgage liability for the house - even if it means being hit with early repayment charges - then ultimately thats his right as a coowner. You would be extremely foolish to force him down the court route since you may well find the legal costs would come out of whatever equity you have remaining...  and would end up with none.

It sucks and I hope you find a solution. But as i said above - your both strangers to one another now and thats the angle you should both be approaching this from in terms of any future financial contract.

Have you explored the possibility of purchasing a cheaper property and porting part of the mortgage (reducing early repayment charges on your share)?

zoothornrollo_2

OP: so sorry to hear of your situation, that's really difficult. All I have to add to another respondent is that it is possible to split and port the mortgage to avoid ERC, if that makes it any easier. When I separated from my wife, YBS were actually very helpful in this regard. We had six months (IIRC) from the sale of our jointly owned property to 'use' the mortgage, in order to avoid ERC (although, again IIRC, we might have had to pay the ERC and then have it refunded when we each found our new property purchase?).

All the very best to you.

dietcokepirate

Emmia said:

 Can you afford the mortgage in your current self-employment?

Do you have, or can you get the £14k* he's seeking? 

Personally, I think in the long run, getting this individual out of your life may turn out to be money well spent.


*There's a risk here, that the amount will rise, as he sounds like for some reason he wants to punish you / bleed you dry financially. 

So, unfortunately, I've done the maths and I'd be slightly short, which is why permanent, salaried employment looks like the best option over the freelance world. I have the money to pay him, but it seems like an excessive amount to hand over now that there are such conditions attached. It now feels like he's trying to fleece me, almost. 

kimwp said:

I'd deduct the half of the stamp duty that he owes you and tell him to take the things he bought. But that might antagonise the situation. What is his motivation for being off the mortgage next year, is he planning on buying then? If you understand that, you might have a reason for him to be more compliant with your proposal.

I am not 100% sure of his motivation. He mentioned something about council housing applications on the basis that he's a veteran. He only makes about £26k – or £33k with overtime – so I think he'd struggle to buy solo around here (but he could of course manage it with someone else).

ian1246 said:

I think the ex is right in demanding a deadline for you to take on 100% the mortgage or be forced to sell.

Without one, what stops you paying him his £14,000 then keeping him on the mortgage for the next decade due to your own financial challenges preventing you being able to borrow a large enough mortgage? He'd be utterly screwed - unable to buy his own house (& thus loose out on future equity gain on his own property) whilst you'd benefit from his credit raising potential still tied into the property, with you benefitting from retaining the house - both as somewhere to live and in pocketing all the future equity gain (which he'd have no claim on due to the agreement).

The fact your taking issue with his wanting a deadline to take on the mortgage is one giant red flag that he may well face the scenario above.

You wouldn't be the first ex-partner to do that to an ex. We have numerous threads on this forum (& the relationship one) with that exact scenario - both recent and historic.

My advice would be to remove all emotion from this and look at it as a purely financial transaction - throwing that he's to blame for all of this into his face certainly won't help the situation. He's nothing more than a stranger to you now - and thats the angle how you need to approach all your dealings and proposed financial arrangement from.

The reality is if you can't afford to take on the mortgage you can't afford to live in the house without your ex's help - the ex is under no obligation to remain tied to a property which he'll have no claim on. That's essentially his position and its not an unreasonable one - the only counter is avoiding the early repayment fee's.

But ultimately if he decides he wants his share of the equity and an end to a mortgage liability for the house - even if it means being hit with early repayment charges - then ultimately thats his right as a coowner. You would be extremely foolish to force him down the court route since you may well find the legal costs would come out of whatever equity you have remaining...  and would end up with none.

It sucks and I hope you find a solution. But as i said above - your both strangers to one another now and thats the angle you should both be approaching this from in terms of any future financial contract.

Have you explored the possibility of purchasing a cheaper property and porting part of the mortgage (reducing early repayment charges on your share)?

I totally respect what you're saying! I do not like that type of behaviour, either. It's more that we'd initially agreed on our proposal based on the time remaining on the term, so I'm just a little annoyed that he didn't mention this new caveat before we instructed a solicitor... I don't want him to be on the mortgage anymore, and would take no issue with a deadline, generally – it's just the particular deadline he's now demanding with regards to this particular arrangement (i.e. me paying him that sum) that I take issue with. If I pay him £14k but then have to sell in April, for example, that'd be me paying him £14k to him now and then also paying out approximately £15k in fees then (before we consider the cost of covering the mortgage solo in the mean-time). Conversely – say we ditched the proposed arrangement and put the house on the market together now (but it didn't sell until April) – I'd be looking at just £7.5k in fees, instead. So it just feels like a LOT of money to spend to be afforded very little additional time. I hope that makes sense! Ideally, I somehow find a new job tomorrow and have it sorted ASAP!  I think I've just been extremely unlucky in terms of the timing RE my job change and the relationship breakdown. Oooh, I hadn't considered looking into a cheaper property and porting... so thank you for bringing that to my attention! I'll investigate.

MWT

On the one hand he should have some certainty as to when he will be removed from the mortgage, but he cannot expect that to be by way of a forced sale during the remaining part of the current fix unless he is prepared to share the ERC penalty.

I know you were hoping for an 'amicable' settlement, but that is looking less likely and you may find the only safe solution is to resolve this with binding agreements based on separate legal advice. 

kimwp

MWT said:

On the one hand he should have some certainty as to when he will be removed from the mortgage, but he cannot expect that to be by way of a forced sale during the remaining part of the current fix unless he is prepared to share the ERC penalty.

I know you were hoping for an 'amicable' settlement, but that is looking less likely and you may find the only safe solution is to resolve this with binding agreements based on separate legal advice. 

It's a good point. It's reasonable for him to have some protection from being on the mortgage ad infinitum, but he signed up for the extent of the fix and it's him wanting an exit, so on that basis he should shoulder any early repayment costs and potentially a larger proportion of any sale costs. Ok, partners share the costs of their life together, but he's declared himself to no longer be a partner.

BikingBud

@dietcokepirate

You mentioned partner in your first post, is that you were married or in a civil partnership?

You also mention veteran, I am assuming ex miitary.

You might have a reserve interest in any military pension, dependent upon relationship, time served and pension scheme they are on,  see for AFPS15 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/885449/20160826-MMP131__003_.pdf

Some of the benefits might be deferred but any discussion about clean break should consider the value and the impact of that pension to ensure it is correctly considered.

silvercar

I think silence is a good weapon here. If you continue this discussion, he’s going to think he can get more out of the situation. Stop talking to him and tell him you have nothing more to add. He either signs or he doesn’t. My guess would be he will sign quickly once he realises there is nothing further to play for. The idea of £14k now will swing things.