Private PCN when parked on adopted road

okkerdgeezer

New member, first post. I've read the NEWBIES sticky thread. Now, I know it says my case isn't different but, don't jump on me, there are a couple of odd circumstances and I'd like your advice.

Private parking operator: Premier Park.
No windscreen PCN.
Date of incident: 14/8/25
Date of issue: 16/8/25
Date received: 20/8/25

What happened. I stopped on a road in front of a hotel to unload baggage, leaving the car unattended for unknown minutes. The car was on a double yellow line, which I believed to be a local authority marking on an adopted road, but I was relying on some period of grace in the circumstances. I saw no signage on that side of the road and naturally wasn't looking elsewhere. Nobody approached me and no notice was placed on the car.

The notice. Two days after I returned home (130 miles away), I received a Parking Charge Notice from Premier Park alleging that I had "parked on private land in breach of the terms and conditions of parking at [******] Combined Court Centre" and "the reason we issued the Parking Charge to the vehicle is as follows: Parked on Double Yellow Lines."

I have checked the local authority's online map of adopted roads. There is a boundary very close to where I parked, beyond which the road is private - part of a privately managed commercial estate (and the local Courts). Although the boundary is not precisely marked on the LA's map, I have several reasons to believe I was on the adopted side.

1. There is a visible difference in tarmac surface and surface markings, indicating a boundary between separate maintenance regimes.
2. Looking at the site on Google satellite maps, I can see a post with signage at the point of this apparent boundary. The post is on the opposite side and some 4m further along the road from where I was parked.
3. Looking on Streetview (image dated 2022) I can see that the post has a sign announcing "Welcome" (sic) to private land operated by Premier Park. I had not parked on the private side of this sign.

The notice goes on to claim that "signage is clearly displayed throughout the area". The above sign is the only one visible from the place where I stopped. I didn't notice it because I wasn't looking at that side of the road, nor expecting the road to be private - there is no mention of private land before that point.

On a point of technical detail, the notice quotes a postcode which is not where I stopped; they have quoted the adjacent postcode, which is within the private area. The notice has two photos of my car timestamped 3 seconds apart. They don't clearly show the position of my car relative to the sign, but there is a prominent road feature (a drain) that places it at least 4m along the road from the sign.

I haven't checked the wording of the notice for compliance with POFA. At one point it says "as the PCN has not been paid in full, the Parking Charge remains outstanding." But there was no PCN before this notice.

I'm slightly reluctant to pursue the recommended Plan A (complain to the land owner) because the landlord appears to the the Court! So, I'm planning to enter Premier Park's appeal process. Is that the right course, and should the above details be the substance of my appeal?

Gr1pr

Give the GSV link and location of the place 

People can stop on double yellows to load or unload

The crucial point would be to know where the demarcation point actually is,  before appealing 

okkerdgeezer

Gr1pr said:

Give the GSV link and location of the place 

People can stop on double yellows to load or unload

The crucial point would be to know where the demarcation point actually is,  before appealing 

Hi Gr1pr, thanks for such a prompt response.

I don't think I'm cleared to post links, yet. I was being deliberately vague about location because of forum advice about not revealing identifiable information - but I guess location of the incident isn't what the advice was about.

So, it was in front of the Premier Inn, Exeter Central EX1 1SG. The PCN refers to terms and conditions of parking at Exeter Combined Court Centre, EX1 1UH, which is very definitely not where I stopped.

Coupon-mad

You can post a link with a gap or two in it!

Email the Local Authority highways dept asking your question and saying you believe PP are issuing fake PCNs to vehicles stopped on council land. Ask for the exact boundary.

okkerdgeezer

Coupon-mad said:

You can post a link with a gap or two in it!

Streetview links are huge, but here goes ... replace <colon>, <dot> and <at> with the appropriate punctuation ...

https<colon>//www<dot>google<dot>com/maps/place/Exeter+EX1+1SG/<at>50.7213075,-3.5264801,3a,75y,101.4h,89.66t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLHxZUwPF65PKISgLAuYzQg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D0.3424908761625147%26panoid%3DLHxZUwPF65PKISgLAuYzQg%26yaw%3D101.39840073519586!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x486da43ce42156bb:0x25046e08c14216e4!8m2!3d50.721265!4d-3.5272125!16s%2Fg%2F11w_vh3zqs?authuser=0&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDgyNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Face east on this view. My car was stopped by the drain cover on the right. The only indication of private land is on the 5 mph post, on the right, 4m beyond the car.

Email the Local Authority highways dept asking your question and saying you believe PP are issuing fake PCNs to vehicles stopped on council land. Ask for the exact boundary.

Haven't done this, yet (been busy). 14 days have passed, so the £60 bribe has expired. I'll get on it today.

Coupon-mad

Hard to tell where any boundary is!

okkerdgeezer

I think this makes it a little clearer. I didn't get to see this image until I started the online appeal. That's me on the left. To the left is adopted road; somewhere to the right is private. I'm arguing that the signpost, opposite, is the boundary marker. This is supported by the local authority's map of adopted roads, although they warn that the map is not of evidential quality.

okkerdgeezer

I have just completed Premier Park's online appeal form, with the following comment:

The car to which this notice relates was stopped on the adopted section of Southernhay Gardens, not on private land managed by Permier Park. This is evidenced by the Devon County Council Highways map of adopted roads in Exeter and by the position of you own signage, shown in your own images, both of which show that the private area is to the West of the corner of Oriel House.

Permier Park has no authority over the section of road on which the car was stopped and is not entitled to levy any charge.

Switcher_Sam

_Double_ yellows? I can just about see a very faded single-yellow in that photo (and perhaps there was once a second line adjacent to it now obscured by tarmac defects). Looks like the "private" lines are much more prominent on the right of the photo after the sign and surface change..

Thorndorise

To be fair, given the council define which roads are adopted and which roads aren't - I think they are the ONLY maps that can be of evidential quality.

I always use a pothole reporting tool for this sort of job, soon tells you if you are or are not on council adopted roads - here https://www.devon.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/report-a-problem/map/map_src/poth/#gf_52

If you look at this - which using planning maps (I think roughly as their basis - so not infallible but the best we have right), you will see that change in tarmacking does indeed define the demarcation between council and private road (in fact I think the sign does as there are services in the pavement just after the change in surface). Given that and the fact you are at approx 1m from that demarcation, and your Astra estate which the new generations are approx 4.7m long, and the back of car is therefore also in line roughly the centre of that double gate opposite, and your rear tyres are touching the road at least 600mm minimum from the rear of your car.



Yet if you make a pothole report where the back wheels are - then I would say that you are on Council adopted roads...centre of the car - defo, back of the car - might be encroaching on the land, but if you take into account the signs AND the demarcation of the road - I think you would be hard pushed to lose this in court...

It is certainly a 'trap' in so far as I suspect that someone from the hotel has taken this as people 'unload' their cars regularly, whether its luck or foresight that led you to park in front of that other car I don't know, but they certainly should have (NOT) got a ticket for unloading. 

Personally I think someone's chancing their hand for a kickback - there, I said it!

okkerdgeezer

Thorndorise said:

To be fair, given the council define which roads are adopted and which roads aren't - I think they are the ONLY maps that can be of evidential quality.

I always use a pothole reporting tool for this sort of job, soon tells you if you are or are not on council adopted roads - here https://www.devon.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/report-a-problem/map/map_src/poth/#gf_52 ...
....
Yet if you make a pothole report where the back wheels are - then I would say that you are on Council adopted roads...centre of the car - defo, back of the car - might be encroaching on the land, but if you take into account the signs AND the demarcation of the road - I think you would be hard pushed to lose this in court...

Thanks Thorndorise. The pothole reporting tool is a great tip. And thanks for your careful analysis. The latest response from Devon CC is "Should you need further confirmation of the boundary our land charges team may be able to assist". I'll wait for the outcome of my appeal before I go down that route.

BTW I've just had the "Final Chance Before Action" notice from Premier Park, threatening me with debt collectors and another £70 on top of the £100 charge. To be fair, it was posted before I made the appeal – it was also posted 10 days before the expiry of the payment period!