Transfer for major company to running pension pot

seventy_pennyless

Who would have known back in 1988 that I would be required to know who the trustees of my pension scheme are!

I am 75 and have various pensions that I am trying to consolidate. I have had a pension scheme in my name, set up by the company that I owned, back in 1988. My financial adviser suggested that we should move these funds in to the "pot" before my 75th birthday, because "pension" companies get twitchy when you reach 75. He was told by the "Company" that he was unable to act for me, on my instructions, because he was not an agent for the "Company" concerned.

My adviser was told by the "Company" that if I contacted the "Company" directly, mysel,f after 27th May there would be no problem in setting-up an account into which the pension funds could be transferred. From this account I could transfer the funds to my pension "pot" and receive the enhanced, tax free, cash lump sum. On the 28th May I telephoned the "Company" to get these transfers under way.

To my great surprise I was told that these arrangements were no longer availabel to me! The only option was to take an annuity with the "Company" and loose the enhanced, tax free, cash lump sum. Alternately I could approach another financial advisor company - subsequently found to be part of a "group" owned by the "Company".

We are now in August. Repeated letters to higher and higher members of the management of the "Company" have resulted in agreement to do what I wanted in the first place. However I am now faced with supplying detailed information to the "Company" to release the fund to me, the only beneficiary. For instance the trustees of the fund. To complete a deed of assignment form. The "Company" has so far ignored my requests to supply the names, addresses and company number require the complete the deed of assingment!

I looks like the Company will do anything they can to stand in my way to benefit from the pension scheme set up 37 years ago. I wonder if there are other pensioners held to ransom in a similar way?

Very frustrating!

tacpot12

Almost certainly ther are others in the same boat. Pension companies are notorious slow to sort out problems. 

Can you not find out the name of the Trustees via public sources? If you post the name of the Pension Scheme here, someone might know it or be able to find the name for you. I doubt they are expecting individual names, rather they are expecting you to provide the name and postal address of the Trustees or the administration company that deals with the Trustees' post. There are lots of such companies, including Willis Tower Watson, Lane Clark and Peacock. The name of the Trustees they are expecting is probably something like "Trustees of the XXX Pension Scheme"!

MyRealNameToo

Im confused, you said you set up your own Company and then talk about "the Company" ignoring your requests etc... are you still talking about the company you formed or are you talking about another firm in the supply chain of the pension

Linton

It seems to be far more complicated than it need be:

1) From what you say it would seem that your advisor is a tied agent (eg salesman) rather than an Independent Financial Advisor.  If so they can only advise on their company's products.

2) It is common for old pensions to have tight restrictions on what you can do with your money such as only being able to take the tax free lump sum when you buy an annuity.  So you will need to transfer to a more modern pension to get access to the pension freedoms now available.

3) To transfer a pension one does not need to be an agent of the provider of the pension being transferred out.  One simply sets up another suitable pension elsewhere (or uses an existing one) and asks the new pension provider to transfer-in the old pension.  It's the new provider that is responsible for dealing with the old provider and getting hold of the money. You would not be involved.

There can be problems if the old pension has "protected benefits" such as a guaranteed annuity rate.  But let's get the basics sorted out first.

flaneurs_lobster

This sounds like it could be a Small Self-administered Scheme, where you as a director of your company set up your own scheme? 

Or is it a more traditional company scheme administered by a pension company?

In either case, more information is needed about the type of scheme. Some scheme rules disallow a tax-free lump sum after age 75, maybe this is what your FA is referring to?

Is your FA independent or "tied" to a particular institution?

xylophone

You were the sole shareholder of a limited company?

Was the pension a SSAS?

In which case, were you yourself (and other employees) a Trustee but  administration  was delegated to a professional Trustee Company as here?

https://www.dentonspensions.co.uk/media/45za0xup/ssas-members-guide.pdf

Marcon

Linton said:

There can be problems if the old pension has "protected benefits" such as a guaranteed annuity rate.  But let's get the basics sorted out first.

Two bits of jargon conflated here! 'Protected rights' were abolished years ago; I think you had a slip of the keyboard and meant 'safeguarded benefits'?

OP, I'm as confused as other people by your references to 'the Company' - which company? 

flaneurs_lobster said:

This sounds like it could be a Small Self-administered Scheme, where you as a director of your company set up your own scheme? 

From what little OP has said, I don't think it's a SSAS - I suspect it is more likely to be an Executive Pension Plan.

Until we have clarity on the facts, not much more anyone can usefully add - although as OP refers to having a financial adviser, one can only wonder what they are doing?

gm0

As others allude.  Many old pensions - employer - occupational - the regular sort for many on PAYE - are 40+ years old and pre-drawdown (of any kind let alone the osborne reforms).   And entirely correctly - to their size and purpose now (e.g. if employer gone) - not updated at considerable cost to permit modern features in situ. 

So the expected outcome of the scheme rules is annuity.  Which is what they say to you. 
Or transfer out to a modern plan.  To access modern features.  Using the legal right to transfer full benefits out and terminate membership which is on earlier pensions legislation.  Which they don't say. And for a good reason.

The situation interacts poorly with the obligations (from FCA) on conduct of business and admin companies acting on behalf of trustees running old schemes.   They say you can do A or B under your membership (dates effective) of this scheme and it's rules.  Neutral. Generic. Not personalised to situation. Not financial advice.  Not a suitable personalised recommendation. They are actively discouraged from discussing other options - C,D,E only accessed via transferrring away.  Some schemes do a deal with a pet IFA/FA to provide a gateway to this separate service.

Doing so would be personalised advice per your situation and thus become regulated as advice - with all the lifetime liability for suitability and all that jazz.  While the result of the current contradiction is frankly customer hostile - until you understand the incentives people are operating under.  They will only talk about the features of the scheme - as it is. In the general case. And offer forms to transact.  The "problem" this setup solves is of admin/product/fund management companies behaving to their own profit incentives making good for us bad for you personalised recommendations to people and farming the ignorant.  Mostly long forgotten now 70s and earlier. For some situations.  And living memory for others such as in advice world e.g. DB/DC transfer scandals. British Steel etc.

The less common scenario would be  SSAS or other historic scheme setup with trustees for a smaller enterprise/self employed person to channel profits to pension and diminish corporation taxes.  But now dormant - for an inidividual or a few people only.  Perhaps setup by OP long ago (via advice - also now perhaps long gone and defunct). In which case maintaining continuity of the scheme and its trustees being accessible for paperwork signing - as with any trust - is ultimately the responsibility of the person setting it up.  As they (and family) beneficiaries are the ones with the incentive to care about it.  Keeping copies of paperwork etc.  
Whether they employ an IFA/FA ongoing or not.  

flaneurs_lobster

In my case, even without the various legal changes and strictures that @gmo describes, the effort required to get 4 DB pensions to TFLS/payment, a DC into drawdown and another DC to purchase a small annuity was astonishing.

And that was with (almost) no restriction, impediment or problems being imposed on the desired outcomes.

xylophone

Or transfer out to a modern plan.

Might be problems with Enhanced PCLS.

https://techzone.aberdeenadviser.com/public/pensions/pension-enhanced-protection#:~:text=Registered tax-free cash,-If someone applied&text=The individual's enhanced protection certificate confirms the amount that can,time uncrystallised benefits are taken.

dunstonh

Protected tax-free cash entitlement would be lost on an individual transfer, but can be retained on a bulk/buddy transfer.  Or, if the existing scheme pays the protected tax-free cash with the residual balance transferred as flexible benefits.

Parts of the post sound like it could be an SSAS, bu then not.  Other parts sound like an EPP, but then not.   Other parts sound like a hybrid scheme.   It is clear that we are not talking about a normal retail retirement annuity contract or personal pension plan.     So, it would be good for the OP to clarify what type of pension it is.