Care Home Top Up Fees

Airbubble

My father in law has less than £23,500 but with his weekly pensions can afford the top up fees himself. If we paid,  his savings would go above £23,500 but would only pay for 1 month care home fees then back below £23,500. So we would be constantly having his needs/finances assessed. Can he not pay his own top up fees?
It's £187 per week and he receives £280 in pensions.

elsien

No, he can’t pay his own top up fees. 

The clue is in the name – voluntary third-party top up – and there is no obligation for you to pay it. 

If he’s no longer self funding, then are his pensions bar the personal allowance now not going towards the care home fees anyway? 

GrubbyGirl_2

You do not have to pay voluntary top up, it is a trick that social services employ to get family to contribute and reduce their costs.  Say you can't afford to pay any more.  What they will likely do is say that he will have to move to a cheaper home, though as you're clearly not paying too much as his savings would reduce on a month on month basis if he paid himself, they are unlikely to find a cheaper home.  If they do go down the line of saying he will have to move then simply say no.  The care home is his home and he they would be breaching article 8 of the human rights act to move him on the basis of money alone.  That should make SS cave in. 

It's a game SS play all the time in the hopes that some families will give in and carry on paying, and in fact most do so it's a very effective tactic.  Families don't realise that if they agree their contributions will increase each year

Keep_pedalling

If he is being funded by the LA then he will be expected to contribute most of his income to his care costs, so even if it was possible he would not have the funds to do so.

Airbubble

GrubbyGirl_2 said:

You do not have to pay voluntary top up, it is a trick that social services employ to get family to contribute and reduce their costs.  Say you can't afford to pay any more.  What they will likely do is say that he will have to move to a cheaper home, though as you're clearly not paying too much as his savings would reduce on a month on month basis if he paid himself, they are unlikely to find a cheaper home.  If they do go down the line of saying he will have to move then simply say no.  The care home is his home and he they would be breaching article 8 of the human rights act to move him on the basis of money alone.  That should make SS cave in. 

It's a game SS play all the time in the hopes that some families will give in and carry on paying, and in fact most do so it's a very effective tactic.  Families don't realise that if they agree their contributions will increase each year

My FIL receives £280 per week in pensions, his top up fees is £187, so he has £93 per week surplus.
When he lived independently he was paying more for his community carer's to visit 4 times a day, but the LA said it's fine for him to pay that,  but not the top up fees. (It's very confusing, these can and cannot rules).

GrubbyGirl_2

Airbubble said:

GrubbyGirl_2 said:

You do not have to pay voluntary top up, it is a trick that social services employ to get family to contribute and reduce their costs.  Say you can't afford to pay any more.  What they will likely do is say that he will have to move to a cheaper home, though as you're clearly not paying too much as his savings would reduce on a month on month basis if he paid himself, they are unlikely to find a cheaper home.  If they do go down the line of saying he will have to move then simply say no.  The care home is his home and he they would be breaching article 8 of the human rights act to move him on the basis of money alone.  That should make SS cave in. 

It's a game SS play all the time in the hopes that some families will give in and carry on paying, and in fact most do so it's a very effective tactic.  Families don't realise that if they agree their contributions will increase each year

My FIL receives £280 per week in pensions, his top up fees is £187, so he has £93 per week surplus.
When he lived independently he was paying more for his community carer's to visit 4 times a day, but the LA said it's fine for him to pay that,  but not the top up fees. (It's very confusing, these can and cannot rules).

He has to fully pay for his own care costs until his saving reach £23,500.  When that happens this is how it should work.  (I will use hypothetical figures to illustrate)

Care home fee is £1200 a week.

He has to contribute the following:

His private pension

His state pension less a personal expenses allowance (which I think is about £30 a week)

He also has to contribute £1 per £250 savings he has between the upper capital limit of £23,250 and the lower capital limit of £14,250 

Let's say that comes to £400 a week leaving a balance of £800 a week that SS should pay.  

However some SS say that they have a maximum they will pay let us say that is £700 a week leaving a deficit of £100 a week.  That's when they go to relatives and say that they need to top up and get them to sign an agreement to do so.  This will go up each year as care home costs go up every year.  The limit is an artificial one that they set themselves.  They can and do pay a lot more for some people

If relatives don't agree then they threaten to move the person to a cheaper home.  In reality (putting aside article 8 of the human rights act) that is very difficult to do as many care homes charge similar rates and beds are in short supply so they would struggle to find somewhere else.  If they try to carry out their threat then get a solicitor to write to them.  It may cost you £1,000 but you'll save that in 5 weeks of not paying top up.

I've been through this with a relative and they quickly back down.  If you need any more help go to Age Concern they are very good at helping you through this.

elsien

GrubbyGirl_2 said:

You do not have to pay voluntary top up, it is a trick that social services employ to get family to contribute and reduce their costs.  Say you can't afford to pay any more.  What they will likely do is say that he will have to move to a cheaper home, though as you're clearly not paying too much as his savings would reduce on a month on month basis if he paid himself, they are unlikely to find a cheaper home.  If they do go down the line of saying he will have to move then simply say no.  The care home is his home and he they would be breaching article 8 of the human rights act to move him on the basis of money alone.  That should make SS cave in. 

It's a game SS play all the time in the hopes that some families will give in and carry on paying, and in fact most do so it's a very effective tactic.  Families don't realise that if they agree their contributions will increase each year

Not entirely accurate. There would need to be a best interest decision and the local authority would have to show there was an equivalent cheaper home that could still meet his needs but judicial reviews have shown that local authority resources are a factor that can be taken into account. It is certainly not as simple as saying they can’t move him because of human rights.
it really depends on what the discrepancy is between the care home fees and what the local authority will pay. Quite often in the care home will reduce the top up to a level that the local authority will pay themselves if it’s not a huge difference..
if there is a large discrepancy which is really not affordable and no compelling reasons why the person absolutely has to stay where they are, then they will have to move and providing the correct processes have been followed, then it is lawful for that to happen.