Private Medical Cover

MyRealNameToo

First instance talk to a broker and see what options there are and prices then you can make a more informed decision. 

topyam

Got £50 / month for all of us
Should i be grabbing that price and taking it?

Cobbler_tone

MyRealNameToo said:

Diddidi said:

I went through this decision process when I was made redundant and then decided to take early retirement. I had various quotes from different providers and in the end just decided to put into a savings account what I would have spent on a policy (£300 per month). That way, I have total control of the funds, no messing about with authorisations and, if I never use it, then it goes to my estate. If I need treatment I’d go for for NHS but perhaps pay for tests etc privately to reduce the waiting game. Having said that, DH was diagnosed with cancer 2 years ago and NHS was brilliant.

Within 2 years of transferring to a private policy the Mrs had to spend almost 2 months in a private hospital at a cost well over £60,000. 

With respect that is the exception as opposed to the norm and you are right, it is down to risk and cover. It is not too different to those who want to save £500k for their care homes fees....they might not need.

There is a sensible level, especially if it means the difference between retiring or not. i.e. if cover is cost prohibitive and it means you have to work another 3 years to fund it, which in turn impacts on your health...you get the idea.

I've had PMI for over 30 years. 3 back operations, a sinus op and countless tests, scans and procedures. I know I have navigated waiting times (first op was on NHS albeit 35 years ago) and had better food and my own room. However, if it is £300-400+ a month I won't be paying it. For true emergencies PMI isn't worth having, i.e. you ring 999 and can't ask the ambulance to take you to your nearest private suite. Maybe there are services  for this but can imagine the cost!
I already pay for a monthly sports massage, cryo treatment and will continue to do so.
If I need a branch block injection, I know who to see so will either pay up the £2k or get a 9 month referral to see the same chap. The same for an op, I'd throw money at it if I had to.

I have found the PMI companies getting more restrictive, more '20 questions', a lot clunkier, more difficult to speak to anyone, or if you do not people who can grasp where you are in your treatment journey.
I reckon £200 PM would be my cut-off and don't see it coming in under that.

As stated previously, the online (and very cost effective) GP services are worth their weight in gold, for instant medical advice and private prescriptions. Less than £200 per year. My own GP takes 4 weeks minimum to see, if you are deemed worthy after the online form and I am sure in many cases could be dead by then!

The one thing that will impact on many (if not most) is cancer. In my experience, the NHS have been very good dealing with this. Certainly with 5 of my family members.

MyRealNameToo

Cobbler_tone said:

MyRealNameToo said:

Diddidi said:

I went through this decision process when I was made redundant and then decided to take early retirement. I had various quotes from different providers and in the end just decided to put into a savings account what I would have spent on a policy (£300 per month). That way, I have total control of the funds, no messing about with authorisations and, if I never use it, then it goes to my estate. If I need treatment I’d go for for NHS but perhaps pay for tests etc privately to reduce the waiting game. Having said that, DH was diagnosed with cancer 2 years ago and NHS was brilliant.

Within 2 years of transferring to a private policy the Mrs had to spend almost 2 months in a private hospital at a cost well over £60,000. 

With respect that is the exception as opposed to the norm and you are right, it is down to risk and cover. It is not too different to those who want to save £500k for their care homes fees....they might not need.

But that is what insurance is, a risk transfer mechanism. You exchange the risk of a big loss for the absolute small loss (your premiums). 

Home insurance is no different, most people dont have their house burn down to the ground but many people choose to pay a premium to avoid that loss if it does happen. There will be some proudly declaring they have never paid for home insurance and are now £Xk better off as a consequence and there will be those who never bought insurance, had a big loss and now tell everyone they should buy insurance. 

We've probably all seen the news paper stories of people stranded abroad having gone on holiday without insurance and suffered a major illness/injury. 

For all insurance, other than Motor, it's a judgement call on if you think the risk transfer is worth the premiums or not. I dont buy insurance on white goods, beyond the default cover under home, as the premium to likely loss ratio is too high poor in my books and I can afford to go out and replace any of the white goods if they failed tomorrow. I do buy home and travel insurance though, the premiums are relatively modest against what they cover in my opinion. 

PMI I buy for now because Im self employed and whilst I have PHI I would rather be well and working than unwell and claiming off the PHI. If I still think it's worth while after retiring is something will consider in the future as the loss of earnings element will have fallen away 

Cobbler_tone

MyRealNameToo said:

Cobbler_tone said:

MyRealNameToo said:

Diddidi said:

I went through this decision process when I was made redundant and then decided to take early retirement. I had various quotes from different providers and in the end just decided to put into a savings account what I would have spent on a policy (£300 per month). That way, I have total control of the funds, no messing about with authorisations and, if I never use it, then it goes to my estate. If I need treatment I’d go for for NHS but perhaps pay for tests etc privately to reduce the waiting game. Having said that, DH was diagnosed with cancer 2 years ago and NHS was brilliant.

Within 2 years of transferring to a private policy the Mrs had to spend almost 2 months in a private hospital at a cost well over £60,000. 

With respect that is the exception as opposed to the norm and you are right, it is down to risk and cover. It is not too different to those who want to save £500k for their care homes fees....they might not need.

But that is what insurance is, a risk transfer mechanism. You exchange the risk of a big loss for the absolute small loss (your premiums). 


PMI I buy for now because Im self employed and whilst I have PHI I would rather be well and working than unwell and claiming off the PHI. If I still think it's worth while after retiring is something will consider in the future as the loss of earnings element will have fallen away 

That shows how it is a personal decision based on affordability and reason for the cover.
£300-400+ a month rules a lot of people out, certainly not a “small loss”.
Pet insurance for a tenner maybe, house insurance for £15 too. I wonder how many people wouldn’t insure their car (maybe public liability insurance) if it wasn’t a legal requirement? Certainly not white goods.

It is certainly a ‘luxury insurance’ for many and they wouldn’t put it top of the list in their retirement plans. Probably not before holidays! More so if they have access to large amounts of capital for a rainy day. 

I’m sure business is booming though in light of the NHS.
Ultimately, if everyone accounted for every eventuality you’d be working to the grave!

MyRealNameToo

Cobbler_tone said:

MyRealNameToo said:

Cobbler_tone said:

MyRealNameToo said:

Diddidi said:

I went through this decision process when I was made redundant and then decided to take early retirement. I had various quotes from different providers and in the end just decided to put into a savings account what I would have spent on a policy (£300 per month). That way, I have total control of the funds, no messing about with authorisations and, if I never use it, then it goes to my estate. If I need treatment I’d go for for NHS but perhaps pay for tests etc privately to reduce the waiting game. Having said that, DH was diagnosed with cancer 2 years ago and NHS was brilliant.

Within 2 years of transferring to a private policy the Mrs had to spend almost 2 months in a private hospital at a cost well over £60,000. 

With respect that is the exception as opposed to the norm and you are right, it is down to risk and cover. It is not too different to those who want to save £500k for their care homes fees....they might not need.

But that is what insurance is, a risk transfer mechanism. You exchange the risk of a big loss for the absolute small loss (your premiums). 


PMI I buy for now because Im self employed and whilst I have PHI I would rather be well and working than unwell and claiming off the PHI. If I still think it's worth while after retiring is something will consider in the future as the loss of earnings element will have fallen away 

That shows how it is a personal decision based on affordability and reason for the cover.
£300-400+ a month rules a lot of people out, certainly not a “small loss”.
Pet insurance for a tenner maybe, house insurance for £15 too. I wonder how many people wouldn’t insure their car (maybe public liability insurance) if it wasn’t a legal requirement? Certainly not white goods.

It is certainly a ‘luxury insurance’ for many and they wouldn’t put it top of the list in their retirement plans. Probably not before holidays! More so if they have access to large amounts of capital for a rainy day. 

I’m sure business is booming though in light of the NHS.
Ultimately, if everyone accounted for every eventuality you’d be working to the grave!

It's a relatively small loss compared to what they can payout; have seen international PMI claims exceeding $2m. I've not dealt with PMI business too much inside the UK but have seen cases of corporates agreeing to exceed policy limits by £100k, I just dont know what the policy limit was that it was being paid on top of.  

Premiums are very much dependent on risk factors, maybe your house insurance is £15/month, mine certainly isnt and a long standing member here pays NFU double what I pay and thinks they have a good deal. 

Like most classes of business there are different levels of cover in PMI and some may decide the bells and whistles version is too expensive but a cut down product that covers major illness and surgery represents better value for them. 

Who knows what percentage would insure their car if it became optional... its worth noting that were you to cause significant injuries to someone settlements would be excluded from bankruptcy so its not the case you can run someone over and then declare yourself bankrupt to avoid the bill. Having dealt with customers who'd invalidated their insurance and were paying off a six figure sum they'd advocate having insurance.

The US may be a good comparison where the state minimum insurance is tiny compared to the likes of the UK (FL is $10k property damage and $10k injury cover per accident) but people often buy cover that exceeds the legal minimum. About 70% exceed their state minimum cover. Things are different in the US though as bankruptcy can include liability for personal injuries. 

Ibrahim5

You don't have large claims in the UK. All emergency treatment is provided by the NHS, and if things go wrong in private hospitals, they just dump it on the NHS. People who are insured love to use their cover and have as many claims as possible to get their money's worth. If you are happy to just use private healthcare to jump the queue for things that you think are important you are better self-insured.

topyam

It's about jumping the queue for me. Waiting lists are years here. And waiting for something that is needed is something that I don't want to do for my kids.
So hard though to commit to the monthly debit as I might never use it. But would be so glad of having it if i needed it

cfw1994

MyRealNameToo said:

Diddidi said:

I went through this decision process when I was made redundant and then decided to take early retirement. I had various quotes from different providers and in the end just decided to put into a savings account what I would have spent on a policy (£300 per month). That way, I have total control of the funds, no messing about with authorisations and, if I never use it, then it goes to my estate. If I need treatment I’d go for for NHS but perhaps pay for tests etc privately to reduce the waiting game. Having said that, DH was diagnosed with cancer 2 years ago and NHS was brilliant.

Insurance is a risk transfer mechanism, you exchange the risk of a big loss for the definite small loss (aka the premiums). 

So sure if you develop no medical conditions then having the £300 a month in your own bank account is great but if you have a major illness your £300 a month you've been saving won't come close to paying for private medical care. 

Within 2 years of transferring to a private policy the Mrs had to spend almost 2 months in a private hospital at a cost well over £60,000. NHS had long waiting lists and any inpatient treatment would have been on an open ward rather than a private room. She wasnt bed bound during her treatment and the private hospital had decent food menus, a full schedule of activities she could choose to be involved in or not etc. NHS would have been sitting in the same bed all day every day for weeks. 

Have had two claims since that and at the moment our payouts are about double what we have paid in so far. Obviously we are a minority but you risk being a minority with your savings pot. 

For certain things, in particular cancer, the NHS does tend to be good and responsive but there are plenty of things they arent. Father and his brother both had major heart attacks on the same day, both were quickly determined to need a triple bypass. His brother had treatment under PMI within a few weeks and was back home within the month and lived another 25 years. My father was in hospital for 4 months with the operation keep getting pushed back and he died on the operating table when they finally got round to it.

PMI does heavily push the fact they have access to other treatments not available on the NHS for Cancer. Whilst it's true for some cancers I'm not sure it's as universal as they make out. 

Just to check….are you saying you have spent in excess of £30k on premiums?
Maybe that is over many years?

I have to agree with @Cobbler_tone when they said “Ultimately, if everyone accounted for every eventuality you’d be working to the grave!”.
I have US old workmates who I know will work perhaps 3-5 years beyond when they want to retire because of the cost of US healthcare.  

To me, those are the years when I will likely be healthiest - the start of retirement - & whilst it is obviously a gamble not to take private health insurance, the balance is having those extra years of flexibility & freedom, which is how I view retirement 🤷‍♂️

YMMV.

Out again later in the garden gym today - stay as healthy as you can, everyone 😎

Cobbler_tone

Who else had to google ‘YMMV’?! 

I’m not sure one of the posters is in the UK. As for the US system, no thank you! I know that one well. It seems better in Oz. 

The trouble with the NHS is that we are finding more illnesses, treating them and living too long!  Maybe we are naturally migrating to a hybrid system where those who can afford to choose to skip certain queues and have a nicer dinner.
I have some current private outpatient treatment which will have taken 3 months from the initial consultation and have definitely seen longer wait times, as well as increased travel to get in.
I think I would pay to expedite initial consultations, scans and diagnosis. That seems to taken months from the people I speak to and work with.