Going self employed- questions?

Nurse2047

Hello
I am after some thoughts please? 

I’m a nurse have been for a long time, worked hard to get where I am and moved from band 5-7 over nearly 20 years and pay not a huge increase between them. I have specialised within a certain area of nursing and have the option of working privately. I have been offered a 6 month elf employed role initially that maybe extended: pay alot more than I earn now. 

It’s 40hrs a week and £55 an hour. I get now just under £20. They pay weekly. This works out over £2000 a week. Feeling daunted to be honest as would I be better doing this as a Ltd company or sole trader. I am aware I can pay into sipp also and claim tax back. Could I do this myself or need accountant? 

I understand after 6 months I may need to look for other private work however what I specialise in is in demand currently so shouldn’t be a problem. 

Many thanks all 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Nurse2047 said:

Hello
I am after some thoughts please? 

I’m a nurse have been for a long time, worked hard to get where I am and moved from band 5-7 over nearly 20 years and pay not a huge increase between them. I have specialised within a certain area of nursing and have the option of working privately. I have been offered a 6 month elf employed role initially that maybe extended: pay alot more than I earn now. 

It’s 40hrs a week and £55 an hour. I get now just under £20. They pay weekly. This works out over £2000 a week. Feeling daunted to be honest as would I be better doing this as a Ltd company or sole trader. I am aware I can pay into sipp also and claim tax back. Could I do this myself or need accountant? 

I understand after 6 months I may need to look for other private work however what I specialise in is in demand currently so shouldn’t be a problem. 

Many thanks all 

The extra tax relief would depend on what your actual income ended up as.

Plenty of people contribute to a SIPP and are only entitled to the basic rate relief the provider adds to your pension.

If you are self employed you would include any SIPP (relief at source) contributions on your Self Assessment return and any extra relief is reflected in the Self Assessment calculation.

The decision about self employment or limited company is almost certainly one to discuss with an accountant.  Do you have friends/relatives who might be able to recommend one?

Marcon

Nurse2047 said:

I have specialised within a certain area of nursing and have the option of working privately. I have been offered a 6 month elf employed role initially that maybe extended: pay alot more than I earn now. 

It’s 40hrs a week and £55 an hour. I get now just under £20. They pay weekly. This works out over £2000 a week. Feeling daunted to be honest as would I be better doing this as a Ltd company or sole trader. 

If this is truly a self employed role (in the eyes of HMRC, not the potential employer), what sort of strictures are they imposing in respect of professional indemnity cover - have you seen a draft contract? Given the potential exposure, my instinct would be a limited company every time...unless you are happy to put all your personal assets at risk if something goes horribly wrong.

The pay rate is indeed vastly better, but have you considered the impact on your NHS pension? You are giving up a huge amount by going self employed and thus ineligible to be a continuing 'active' member.

Isthisforreal99

As above, is this a genuine self-employment situation. It's hard to envisage a scenario where a nurse carrying out duties would be self-employed in the eyes of HMRC. Check the HMRC status tool - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-employment-status-for-tax

Also, do not underestimate the value of your NHS pension when comparing remuneration.

MyRealNameToo

Nurse2047 said:

Hello
I am after some thoughts please? 

I’m a nurse have been for a long time, worked hard to get where I am and moved from band 5-7 over nearly 20 years and pay not a huge increase between them. I have specialised within a certain area of nursing and have the option of working privately. I have been offered a 6 month elf employed role initially that maybe extended: pay alot more than I earn now. 

It’s 40hrs a week and £55 an hour. I get now just under £20. They pay weekly. This works out over £2000 a week. Feeling daunted to be honest as would I be better doing this as a Ltd company or sole trader. I am aware I can pay into sipp also and claim tax back. Could I do this myself or need accountant? 

I understand after 6 months I may need to look for other private work however what I specialise in is in demand currently so shouldn’t be a problem. 

Many thanks all 

Have you spoken to them about IR35? 

As a self employed person it doesnt apply but if you are thinking about incorporating then it would come into play. The likelihood is that they would determine the role to be inside IR35 (or just have a blanket policy that they won't deal with LTDs) in which case they are unlikely to allow you to use a LTD and even if they did there is very little advantage of doing so. 

As a long term contractor... a lot comes down to your ability to get jobs, which is distinct to your ability to do the job. I'm 15 years in and so far only had one spell without a contract but that was because I trusted a firm that said they'd be renewing, hadn't looked for other opportunities and in late December a couple of days before the renewal they advised they wouldnt renew. A former colleague has a very similar CV to me, we both trained with the same firm but he's got 5 years experience on me. He's been contracting for about the same time but frequently has a couple of months between gigs (unplanned) and what jobs he does get are often not as well paid. I dont think I am massively more competent than him, but clearly I am better at getting jobs. 

Marcon

Isthisforreal99 said:

As above, is this a genuine self-employment situation. It's hard to envisage a scenario where a nurse carrying out duties would be self-employed in the eyes of HMRC. Check the HMRC status tool - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-employment-status-for-tax

Also, do not underestimate the value of your NHS pension when comparing remuneration.

...not to mention the absence of holiday pay and sick pay... Headline hourly rates always look absolutely marvellous until you start digging deeper and realise just what you aren't getting.

Fermion

If you do decide to go this route and trade as as a Ltd Company or Sole Trader you would definitely need an accountant, although if you are capable and feel happy keeping accurate records you could manage to bookkeeping element yourself.

As mentioned above, if there is only going to be one ultimate client (NHS) who falls within the public sector then this is likely to fall within the scope of IR35. This would mean that you would need to be contracting through an umbrella company and PAYE and NI would apply. However if you contract to multiple end clients then this may change matters. See https://www.bernard-rogers.co.uk/tax-guidance/ir35explained 

Worth having an initial free chat with some local accountants who deal with Freelance Contractors. I was a Freelance Contractor in the Public Sector for many years via a Ltd Company, but successive governments have tightened the IR35 rules significantly and also changed flat rate VAT incentives. You need to think carefully about the Pros and Cons of each route.

Nurse2047

Thanks for all your advice, for those stating don’t leave nhs pension the job in the nhs was having huge impact on my mental health. Manager under investigation for fraud and bullying so chose to leave. 

MyRealNameToo

Fermion said:
As mentioned above, if there is only going to be one ultimate client (NHS) who falls within the public sector then this is likely to fall within the scope of IR35. This would mean that you would need to be contracting through an umbrella company and PAYE and NI would apply. However if you contract to multiple end clients then this may change matters. See https://www.bernard-rogers.co.uk/tax-guidance/ir35explained 

IR35 doesnt apply to sole traders so umbrella isnt the only option. In my sector clients won't work with a sole trader so hence it's off the table but I believe the NHS will. 

IR35 determination is done by the client, or they can simply decide they won't deal with PSCs which has the same impact as being inside IR35. None of the questionnaires I've had to fill in asks about if you actually have other clients or not of late and even back when they did it is only one small consideration. 

Things like being able to send a substitute, deciding when/how/where things are done, being responsible for rectifying errors at own expense, providing own tools, not being part of team meetings/events/parties etc are all considerations. 

Amusingly, to me at least, there are those that offer coaching on how to complete IR35 assessments because there is a mindset aspect to it. For example, as a business consulted helping a company perform a transaction does my client dictate the hours I work? The reality is that the nature of the job requires me to work certain hours because the lawyers arent going to want to do a 10pm Sunday call as the weekly check in each week but that strictly isnt the client demanding I work 9-5 mon-fri 

DRS1

"The reality is that the nature of the job requires me to work certain hours because the lawyers arent going to want to do a 10pm Sunday call as the weekly check in each week"

You'd be surprised what hours lawyers work.

There is the old joke of the lawyer turning up at the Pearly Gates and complaining that he was only 35.  St Peter looks at his list and says "according to your time sheets you're 110"

On a more serious note isn't what the OP is going to do very similar to being a bank nurse?  There must be lots of experience in the NHS of how to structure that and whether IR35 is an issue.

Marcon

Nurse2047 said:

Thanks for all your advice, for those stating don’t leave nhs pension the job in the nhs was having huge impact on my mental health. Manager under investigation for fraud and bullying so chose to leave. 

Nobody is stating anything - simply flagging points you might wish to consider when looking at your future - which might (or might not) include a return to the NHS.

Don't forget that you will have a much higher tax bill if you take this new job. Take that into consideration, along with no holiday pay or sick pay, and no thumpingly good defined benefit pension scheme, and your hourly rate looks closer to £35 an hour.