Buying property from ex

perfect10

Joint owners, 3 children together. Not married. I remained in the property with our children and have paid all the mortgage for the last 12 months as he said he couldn’t pay it. He hasn’t paid a penny in child maintenance either and I have now contacted CSA. 

He is bullying me into putting the house up for sale I have said no and offered to buy him out. 

We got valuations from estate agents but there is no way the house would sell for that amount. One estate agent quoted initial listing price along with what they think offers would be. Likely sale price is 10k below  the initial listing price.  Estate agents valuations differ by 15k. Needs new kitchen, new roof, damp patches sorting etc.

I have based my offer on the likely sale price, deducted what we owe, deducted a further amount as I’ve paid all the mortgage for 12 months. And deducted a little for urgent repairs . Split between 2 and offered half this amount. He won’t agree and states market value is the amount stated as listing price. He also wants top valuation to be used. I am happy to negotiate but he refuses. 

My question - is there a better way of getting a fairer market value other than free estate agent quotes?

Estate agents over price property to get your business and no one pays the asking price and Estate agents don’t take into account any repair work. They literally measured the rooms , took a quick look round and that’s it. 

Altior

You can get a RICS home survey, ie a formal professional valuation. That will provide an estimate of the actual expected selling price, along with the working.

It will cost you some money, but you can obtain quotes from local surveyors that are on the RICS register.

It will only be valid for a short period of time, ie 3 months, and if your ex is being deliberately awkward then he is unlikely to take much notice of it anyway...

david29dpo

Same after our neighbours divorce.
What they ended doing is selling the house and pulling out just before exchange!
They were both happy, the buyer wasnt.

Voyager2002

perfect10 said:

Joint owners, 3 children together. Not married. I remained in the property with our children and have paid all the mortgage for the last 12 months as he said he couldn’t pay it. He hasn’t paid a penny in child maintenance either and I have now contacted CSA. 

He is bullying me into putting the house up for sale I have said no and offered to buy him out. 

We got valuations from estate agents but there is no way the house would sell for that amount. One estate agent quoted initial listing price along with what they think offers would be. Likely sale price is 10k below  the initial listing price.  Estate agents valuations differ by 15k. Needs new kitchen, new roof, damp patches sorting etc.

I have based my offer on the likely sale price, deducted what we owe, deducted a further amount as I’ve paid all the mortgage for 12 months. And deducted a little for urgent repairs . Split between 2 and offered half this amount. He won’t agree and states market value is the amount stated as listing price. He also wants top valuation to be used. I am happy to negotiate but he refuses. 

My question - is there a better way of getting a fairer market value other than free estate agent quotes?

Estate agents over price property to get your business and no one pays the asking price and Estate agents don’t take into account any repair work. They literally measured the rooms , took a quick look round and that’s it. 

Your calculation should also take into account the mortgage payments for the last year that he has delayed making: in effect you have loaned him the money for his share, and that amount would be deducted from any payment he received from the house. 

You should make it clear to him that if the house is actually sold, this amount, and also child support payments that are in arrears, would be deducted from whatever is paid to him.

ian1246

Voyager2002 said:

perfect10 said:

Joint owners, 3 children together. Not married. I remained in the property with our children and have paid all the mortgage for the last 12 months as he said he couldn’t pay it. He hasn’t paid a penny in child maintenance either and I have now contacted CSA. 

He is bullying me into putting the house up for sale I have said no and offered to buy him out. 

We got valuations from estate agents but there is no way the house would sell for that amount. One estate agent quoted initial listing price along with what they think offers would be. Likely sale price is 10k below  the initial listing price.  Estate agents valuations differ by 15k. Needs new kitchen, new roof, damp patches sorting etc.

I have based my offer on the likely sale price, deducted what we owe, deducted a further amount as I’ve paid all the mortgage for 12 months. And deducted a little for urgent repairs . Split between 2 and offered half this amount. He won’t agree and states market value is the amount stated as listing price. He also wants top valuation to be used. I am happy to negotiate but he refuses. 

My question - is there a better way of getting a fairer market value other than free estate agent quotes?

Estate agents over price property to get your business and no one pays the asking price and Estate agents don’t take into account any repair work. They literally measured the rooms , took a quick look round and that’s it. 

Your calculation should also take into account the mortgage payments for the last year that he has delayed making: in effect you have loaned him the money for his share, and that amount would be deducted from any payment he received from the house. 

You should make it clear to him that if the house is actually sold, this amount, and also child support payments that are in arrears, would be deducted from whatever is paid to him.

Except its not as clear cut as that. The OP has had sole use of the property for those 12months and therefore the Ex can argue she owes him occupational rent - which would be offset against the mortgage payments she's made.

https://www.lexisnexis.co.uk/legal/glossary/occupation-rent

https://ellisons.com/news/occupational-rent-what-is-it-and-when-should-it-be-considered-when-separating/

https://paulrobinson.co.uk/commercial-leases-the-basics/

As for the Child Benefits - thats a seperate matter entirely to the sale of the property. The OP needs to be contacting CSA - they can be back dated i think.

It does read like both the OP & ex are being incredibly unreasonable- the OP since she's apparently decided to just ignore multiple estate agents valuations and pluck figures out of thin air based solely on her opinion and what she wants (i.e. deducting the amount she's paid on the mortgage for the last 12months) - in so doing ignoring the small matter which is the law and her ex legally owning 50% of the property (unless they have a deed of trust). Opinion does not trump the law - right now, regardless of who's made the mortgage payments, he owns 50% of the property and any equity accumulated in it (unless there's a deed of trust).

Meanwhile the Ex is being unreasonable since he only wants to use the highest rather than the average valuation.

Both seem to be trying to extort the other - they need a mediation session to sort it out in a practicable manner i.e. the Ex needs to understand any extra £££ gained from putting the house on the open market may well be offset against estate agent fee's & conveyancing costs, not to mention  the delays inherent with selling a house & therefore delays in getting his money.

OP needs to understand that the mortgage payments are immaterial when it comes ownership and that if valuations are being provided it is normal practice to average them out, plus those valuations are based on the property in its current condition - so removing £££ from the ex's share to cover improvements, is taking the micky. I'd also suggest its really not "bullying" to want his £££ from the house - what's the alternative? He just waits for the OP to eventually decide to sell naturally? Could be decades from now.

The reality is if it gets to court, the £10,000's in legal fee's they ll owe will vastly exceed the comparatively small amount of £££ they are arguing over. Mediation is needed.

If they are married, that would make a big difference - if thats the case, OP needs to see a solicitor ASAP.

perfect10

ian1246 said:

Voyager2002 said:

perfect10 said:

Joint owners, 3 children together. Not married. I remained in the property with our children and have paid all the mortgage for the last 12 months as he said he couldn’t pay it. He hasn’t paid a penny in child maintenance either and I have now contacted CSA. 

He is bullying me into putting the house up for sale I have said no and offered to buy him out. 

We got valuations from estate agents but there is no way the house would sell for that amount. One estate agent quoted initial listing price along with what they think offers would be. Likely sale price is 10k below  the initial listing price.  Estate agents valuations differ by 15k. Needs new kitchen, new roof, damp patches sorting etc.

I have based my offer on the likely sale price, deducted what we owe, deducted a further amount as I’ve paid all the mortgage for 12 months. And deducted a little for urgent repairs . Split between 2 and offered half this amount. He won’t agree and states market value is the amount stated as listing price. He also wants top valuation to be used. I am happy to negotiate but he refuses. 

My question - is there a better way of getting a fairer market value other than free estate agent quotes?

Estate agents over price property to get your business and no one pays the asking price and Estate agents don’t take into account any repair work. They literally measured the rooms , took a quick look round and that’s it. 

Your calculation should also take into account the mortgage payments for the last year that he has delayed making: in effect you have loaned him the money for his share, and that amount would be deducted from any payment he received from the house. 

You should make it clear to him that if the house is actually sold, this amount, and also child support payments that are in arrears, would be deducted from whatever is paid to him.

Except its not as clear cut as that. The OP has had sole use of the property for those 12months and therefore the Ex can argue she owes him occupational rent - which would be offset against the mortgage payments she's made.

https://www.lexisnexis.co.uk/legal/glossary/occupation-rent

https://ellisons.com/news/occupational-rent-what-is-it-and-when-should-it-be-considered-when-separating/

https://paulrobinson.co.uk/commercial-leases-the-basics/

As for the Child Benefits - thats a seperate matter entirely to the sale of the property. The OP needs to be contacting CSA - they can be back dated i think.

It does read like both the OP & ex are being incredibly unreasonable- the OP since she's apparently decided to just ignore multiple estate agents valuations and pluck figures out of thin air based solely on her opinion and what she wants (i.e. deducting the amount she's paid on the mortgage for the last 12months) - in so doing ignoring the small matter which is the law and her ex legally owning 50% of the property (unless they have a deed of trust). Opinion does not trump the law - right now, regardless of who's made the mortgage payments, he owns 50% of the property and any equity accumulated in it (unless there's a deed of trust).

Meanwhile the Ex is being unreasonable since he only wants to use the highest rather than the average valuation.

Both seem to be trying to extort the other - they need a mediation session to sort it out in a practicable manner i.e. the Ex needs to understand any extra £££ gained from putting the house on the open market may well be offset against estate agent fee's & conveyancing costs, not to mention  the delays inherent with selling a house & therefore delays in getting his money.

OP needs to understand that the mortgage payments are immaterial when it comes ownership and that if valuations are being provided it is normal practice to average them out, plus those valuations are based on the property in its current condition - so removing £££ from the ex's share to cover improvements, is taking the micky. I'd also suggest its really not "bullying" to want his £££ from the house - what's the alternative? He just waits for the OP to eventually decide to sell naturally? Could be decades from now.

The reality is if it gets to court, the £10,000's in legal fee's they ll owe will vastly exceed the comparatively small amount of £££ they are arguing over. Mediation is needed.

If they are married, that would make a big difference - if thats the case, OP needs to see a solicitor ASAP.

Interesting, never heard of occupational rent. Wonder if this would apply as our 3 children reside here? He does allegedly have them 3 nights a week but often cancels. He also left voluntarily, had an affair and got found out then left.
really not trying to be unreasonable, and did not pluck a figure out of midair I used what the estate agents said offers would be, not their suggested listing price. Surely that would be market value eg looking at what other houses actually sell for in the area? Not what they are listed for?
i made an offer expecting to negotiate but yes law states he owns 50%. I can see I have been naive.

i have asked for mediation he refused. 

Oh and he is a bully but not going into that here.
the valuations we have I don’t believe are the house in current condition. It badly needs a new roof and there are some other structural issues that would be picked up by a surveyor. I think the fair way would be RICS report as suggested in another comment.
appreciate people taking time to respond

saajan_12

perfect10 said:

I have based my offer on the likely sale price, deducted what we owe, deducted a further amount as I’ve paid all the mortgage for 12 months. And deducted a little for urgent repairs . Split between 2 and offered half this amount. He won’t agree and states market value is the amount stated as listing price. He also wants top valuation to be used. I am happy to negotiate but he refuses. 

My question - is there a better way of getting a fairer market value other than free estate agent quotes?

Estate agents over price property to get your business and no one pays the asking price and Estate agents don’t take into account any repair work. They literally measured the rooms , took a quick look round and that’s it. 

Ex is certainly being unreasonable taking a top valuation price, plus selling to you avoids agent commission etc. 

However you're also being somewhat unreasonable the other way, so the fair price is probably somewhere in the middle. 
- paying the mortgage for 12 months is offset by you living there for those 12 months, while he had to rent elsewhere. The kids living there is a separate issue for child support. 
- urgent repairs are subjective.. they haven't been done so far, so are they that urgent? Often a builder will tell you a roof is on its last legs even if it suffices for several years yet. A buyer wouldn't usually get to deduct the whole cost of a new roof, as the expectation would be its a partly used roof anyway. 

The fair price is probably somewhere in the middle. 

perfect10

I am happy to meet in the middle and that’s what I had hoped to do but it’s agreeing what a market value is. I should have kept child maintenance out of it as a completely different issue, hindsight is a great thing!
 Some of the repair works need to be done if the house were to be sold and that was what I had deducted in offer price. The roof leaks and there are damp patches on the ceilings so that one is pretty urgent.