Teachers pensions say my husband needs to repay £18000!

LandM1

Yesterday my husband received a letter from Teachers Pensions stating that 15 years ago he was paid £18000 too much pension. Apparently this is supposed to have happened over 3 years.  The dates and figures they have quoted make no sense to us. 

They have sent an invoice for repayment at once or at a rate of £2000 a month! He doesn’t even receive that much pension from them each month!
Needless to say we are totally shocked by this. We really don’t know what to do. He called TP yesterday but their systems were down so they couldn’t access the information!
After this length of time can they demand a repayment? 

Any suggestions on how to approach this issue please?

Marcon

LandM1 said:

Yesterday my husband received a letter from Teachers Pensions stating that 15 years ago he was paid £18000 too much pension. Apparently this is supposed to have happened over 3 years.  The dates and figures they have quoted make no sense to us. 

They have sent an invoice for repayment at once or at a rate of £2000 a month! He doesn’t even receive that much pension from them each month!
Needless to say we are totally shocked by this. We really don’t know what to do. He called TP yesterday but their systems were down so they couldn’t access the information!
After this length of time can they demand a repayment? 

Any suggestions on how to approach this issue please?

First off: are you absolutely sure the letter is genuine? I fear it almost certainly is, but do make sure before going any further.

How to approach it? See https://www.pensions-ombudsman.org.uk/case-study/overpayment-case-study-mrs-e#:~:text=Mrs%20E%20was%20a%20member,November%201975%20until%20February%201980. and https://www.pensions-ombudsman.org.uk/case-study/overpayment-0

The former is actually a TP case; the latter (a different Mrs E!) isn't, but includes a lot of helpful information, in particular the things the Pensions Ombudsman would take into account in a case of this sort and when the 'Limitation Period' might apply - and it isn't straightforward or simple.

As you will see, much will depend on the (detailed) facts of the case. The level of detail required is far more than is wise (or indeed possible) to post on this sort of public forum, and doing so won't actually help you much - TP aren't going to be remotely interested in what people here are saying. They don't have any option about listening to the Pensions Ombudsman, though, and that's where you need to head in due course.

Prior to doing that, your husband needs to go through the TP Internal Dispute Resolution Procedure, which will give him a chance to state his case, and give TP a chance to come up with some realistic offers. See https://www.teacherspensions.co.uk/public/contact-us/member-complaints-and-appeals.aspx He certainly needs to ask for full details, including an explanation of the dates and figures which you say make no sense to you.

It goes without saying that, for now, he pays them precisely nothing.

LandM1

Macron, thanks that’s very helpful. 

MetaPhysical

That's absolutely insane!
I received £150k as a death lump sum following the death of my wife who was a TP member and now I have a widow(er)s pension.  Stories like yours are scary - there is no way I could pay such a sum back and I built my life around the money that was given to me by TP following her loss and made irreversible financial decisions in good faith.
I do hope you get this sorted out.

german_keeper

It does seem to be a recurring theme on this forum that pensions administration appears particularly poor. My wife has a private sector DB pension due in February next year. Although the commutation factor at 16.5/1 isn't brilliant we are considering taking a lump sum so are hoping the service will be as we would hope it to be. The company is called XPS Administration and so far we have had a couple of dealings with them and been very impressed. Fingers crossed.   

Stubod

My wife has an NHS pension, after 3 years they advised she had been overpaid since it started, (admitedly nowhere near the sum you are talking about),  and asked for it to be repaid in one go. We politely told them to shove it but we did have to pay it back, and we told them we would pay it back over the same time frame they had been overpaying it...ie 3 years.... 

german_keeper

Been thinking about this a bit and I do think it's a real problem. I have done my calculations on er indoors pension and I suspect Im not far off. If it comes in a lot more or less than Im expecting I will of course challenge it, But what about people (the vast majority?) who really wouldnt have a clue. I accept that the trustees have a responsibility but if you have spent the money and suddenly have this huge bill to repay through no fault of your own. Thats a real problem.

DRS1

Interesting note on the subject.  Have a look at the bit on defences

Pensions briefing - Ten things you should know about overpayments - September 2016 | United Kingdom | Global law firm | Norton Rose Fulbright

bjorn_toby_wilde

german_keeper said:

It does seem to be a recurring theme on this forum that pensions administration appears particularly poor. My wife has a private sector DB pension due in February next year. Although the commutation factor at 16.5/1 isn't brilliant we are considering taking a lump sum so are hoping the service will be as we would hope it to be. The company is called XPS Administration and so far we have had a couple of dealings with them and been very impressed. Fingers crossed.   

I hope they are, but we’re all at the mercy of similar administrators and my dealings with mine have never filled me with confidence.

The trustees of a pension scheme have an obligation to recover overpayments and as a result the ombudsman virtually never finds in favour of the pension recipient. It amounts to a licence to maladminister because there are no consequences for making these mistakes.

Perhaps fines for the administrators would be an idea.

artyboy

bjorn_toby_wilde said:

german_keeper said:

It does seem to be a recurring theme on this forum that pensions administration appears particularly poor. My wife has a private sector DB pension due in February next year. Although the commutation factor at 16.5/1 isn't brilliant we are considering taking a lump sum so are hoping the service will be as we would hope it to be. The company is called XPS Administration and so far we have had a couple of dealings with them and been very impressed. Fingers crossed.   

I hope they are, but we’re all at the mercy of similar administrators and my dealings with mine have never filled me with confidence.

The trustees of a pension scheme have an obligation to recover overpayments and as a result the ombudsman virtually never finds in favour of the pension recipient. It amounts to a licence to maladminister because there are no consequences for making these mistakes.

Perhaps fines for the administrators would be an idea.

Rather than fines (or in addition to...) perhaps some form of liability insurance for administrators that will cover money accepted in good faith by pensioners that have gone on to spend it and would be placed in hardship having to repay it years down the line...

Albermarle

artyboy said:

bjorn_toby_wilde said:

german_keeper said:

It does seem to be a recurring theme on this forum that pensions administration appears particularly poor. My wife has a private sector DB pension due in February next year. Although the commutation factor at 16.5/1 isn't brilliant we are considering taking a lump sum so are hoping the service will be as we would hope it to be. The company is called XPS Administration and so far we have had a couple of dealings with them and been very impressed. Fingers crossed.   

I hope they are, but we’re all at the mercy of similar administrators and my dealings with mine have never filled me with confidence.

The trustees of a pension scheme have an obligation to recover overpayments and as a result the ombudsman virtually never finds in favour of the pension recipient. It amounts to a licence to maladminister because there are no consequences for making these mistakes.

Perhaps fines for the administrators would be an idea.

Rather than fines (or in addition to...) perhaps some form of liability insurance for administrators that will cover money accepted in good faith by pensioners that have gone on to spend it and would be placed in hardship having to repay it years down the line...

Maybe with the excess of any claims being paid by the Directors. That might sharpen their acts up ( and they need it!)