Excel/Elms Legal Claim.

HalfTheWorldAway

Evening all.
Looking for some advice to ensure I am on the right track.

My daughter received a PCN from Excel in Nov last year. Contravention was "parked without displaying valid ticket/permit. It is pay and display car park.
It's the usual £100 plus £70 debt recovery nonsense.

She has paid and displayed a valid ticket and the PCN contained photos of the car parked with the ticket displayed all be it you cannot see it in close up.

There were also photos of signs stating "Private Land", followed by a box stating "Parking for valid E-permit holders only". There are no clearly defined "permit only" bays (just these signs where she was parked), and the signs could equally apply to the whole car park or individual bays or areas. I suspect the signage wording and parking bays are deliberately vague and ambiguous.

Had a couple of debt collection letters from DCBL, followed by a Letter Of Claim from DCB Legal, to which we replied with the response from the newbies thread.

Then came a Letter Before Claim from ELMS Legal, to which I have filed the AOS on MCOL.

I am now in the process of entering a defence.
 
Am I right to start template defence from this link as the LBC is from ELMS? 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81199155/#Comment_81199155

With some basic facts about the case for  Paragraph 6 and then Paragraph 4 (from the original template defence)  will be Paragraph 7.



Thanks in advance.

Gr1pr

If the AOS was filed then it's a live Court Claim,  not a Letter Before Claim,  but an actual claim 

Post the Issue date from the top right of the claim form below and also the AOS date too

Add a redacted picture of the POC from the lower left of the claim form below after hiding the VRM details first 

HalfTheWorldAway

Yes. Sorry it is a live claim. I wasn't clear in my original post.

The AOS was submitted on the 12.07.25 and received on the 14.07.25.

Thanks.

Gr1pr

Use the new template defence by coupon mad,  your deadline is 4pm on 6th August,  so next week 

HalfTheWorldAway

That's great. Thanks very much for you help.

Coupon-mad

"parked without displaying valid ticket/permit"

Do you know on what basis they are claiming that she didn't 'display'?

HalfTheWorldAway

I believe there are permit holder only bays as well general use pay and display.
I believe she inadvertently parked in a permit holder only bays.
This is one of the photos they took.

That is the only indication. There are no specific markings or signs indicating which particular bays are permit only.

Coupon-mad

HalfTheWorldAway said:

I believe there are permit holder only bays as well general use pay and display.
I believe she inadvertently parked in a permit holder only bays.
This is one of the photos they took.

That is the only indication. There are no specific markings or signs indicating which particular bays are permit only.

If it's parking on offer for "e-Permit Holders only" there cannot be a relevant obligation to DISPLAY (see what I mean?).

She cannot have been in breach anyway because a licence is only offered to e-Permit Holders. See PACE v Lengyel.

HalfTheWorldAway

I see exactly what you mean. Thank You.
I will have a look at the case you have highlighted now.
Again many thanks to both yourself and Gr1pr.

HalfTheWorldAway

Hi.
Defence submitted.
Have now received the Directions Questionnaire and plan to submit ours today.
I intend to go to court with my daughter and speak on her behalf. 
Do I need to inform the court of this, and if so at what point and how do I/we go about this.
Thanks in advance.

Gr1pr

For the DQ, just put a small number down, because they only need approximate details so they know what size room is required,  but for 2 or 3 people on her side it's irrelevant,  but it's relevant if she had 49 witnesses, experts,  lay rep etc

You as a lay representative or as a mckenzie friend need to look up what each one entails, especially the first one,  take a copy with you and you probably need to inform the usher beforehand so that the judge is made aware