Changing SIPP Platform

dunstonh

My question in the OP is about the suitability of Fidelity as a SIPP provider and whether there are issues I am unware of that make other companies more suitable.

The fact they say you cannot open a SIPP with them rather makes that question moot.

 In a worst case scenario, I will simply visit the UK and apply as a resident, whilst the SIPP is established at the new provider.

I'm not sure we should support your attempts to commit fraud.
Do you have dual residency?   Jumping on a plane and popping over to the UK does not automatically grant you residency.
Do you meet any of the other tests for when you spend less than 183 days in the UK?

Fidelity's criteria may have nothing to do with taxation but a business decision.   Many UK financial firms require UK residency as a business decision.

It may be better, at this stage, just to ask them so you have a firm yes or no and if no, then you can focus on a provider that will offer services to you.

chiang_mai

dunstonh said:

My question in the OP is about the suitability of Fidelity as a SIPP provider and whether there are issues I am unware of that make other companies more suitable.

The fact they say you cannot open a SIPP with them rather makes that question moot.

 In a worst case scenario, I will simply visit the UK and apply as a resident, whilst the SIPP is established at the new provider.

I'm not sure we should support your attempts to commit fraud.
Do you have dual residency?   Jumping on a plane and popping over to the UK does not automatically grant you residency.
Do you meet any of the other tests for when you spend less than 183 days in the UK?

Fidelity's criteria may have nothing to do with taxation but a business decision.   Many UK financial firms require UK residency as a business decision.

It may be better, at this stage, just to ask them so you have a firm yes or no and if no, then you can focus on a provider that will offer services to you.

That's very strong language and wholly inappropriate! In order to commit fraud, the intention must be to make a gain or cause a loss to be suffered, neither case is applicable in my case. 

It's a shame that nobody wants to answer my question and instead want to focus on a different issue. Never mind, I'll just do some more reading up on the subject and hope I can find the information that's relevant. 

FWIW I had raised the residency issue with Fidelity, before I posted my question here, but I've yet to receive a response from them.

I think the notion that my question involves fraud is an utter nonsense and nothing more than technical minutiae  that smacks strongly of jobsworth. Few people have thought through the issue of residency, instead just parrot the same blanket response. UK Resident for what, for tax? I said up front that I already am, even if the Statutory Residency Test is applied. UK Resident for DWP purposes? I am, by virtue of the DWP Habitual Residency Test. The NHS Test? Returning UK citizens can be regarded as resident if they intend to remain. Is there another form of residency test and if so, what are the rules for it and where is it enshrined in law? 

I do not know what you mean by dual residency, I'm not familiar with the term? I do not have dual nationality, if that's what you mean. And I have already said that I am resident in both countries for tax purposes and file tax returns in both. I also have the right to live in the UK by virtue of my citizenship and in Thailand my virtue of my long term visa and marital status.

I have already set out the fact that I own a home in the UK, pay Council tax etc, file a UK tax return and pay UK tax. Those things are sufficient for Computershare to regard me as UK resident, ditto DWP and the major banks where I hold savings accounts that pay interest on which I pay UK tax. HL cannot explain to me the basis for their requirement for me to be physically present in the UK before I am eligible to perform certain functions and trades. One person told me it was the law but was unable to cite a reference, another told me it was an HMRC requirement, both of which are untrue. 

I am fairly certain the broad requirement stems from attempts by overseas residents to evade UK tax, but it escapes me how they do that since pension providers deduct tax at source.  As for being "resident" in the UK, from the date of arrival, whatever residency truly means for SIPP purposes, the NHS and DWP can both regard me as a UK resident from the day of arrival. Perhaps there should be a residency test for SIPP purposes!
 
Regardless, the Admin can feel free to close this thread or to do whatever they wish with it, once a thread has been abandoned by the original poster. Further engagement in the topic responders wish to discuss, is not productive or helpful.

JoeCrystal

I have already set out the fact that I own a home in the UK, pay Council tax etc, file a UK tax return and pay UK tax.

Again, none of it make you UK residents potentially. As you point out, you have to do the actual legwork in finding suitable providers. If I use common sense, I certainly would not consider you as a resident in the UK if you do not live here permanently, then you not a resident. I assumed that all relevant providers are fully aware that your actual address is in Thailand rather than a UK address which letters get sent to which are often kept solely by overseas to keep access to the UK banking facilities open rather than getting closed.

Either way, I can see why no one wants to help you with advices that potentially can be used by criminals to commit frauds on public forums.

chiang_mai

JoeCrystal said:

I have already set out the fact that I own a home in the UK, pay Council tax etc, file a UK tax return and pay UK tax.

Again, none of it make you UK residents potentially. As you point out, you have to do the actual legwork in finding suitable providers. If I use common sense, I certainly would not consider you as a resident in the UK if you do not live here permanently, then you not a resident. I assumed that all relevant providers are fully aware that your actual address is in Thailand rather than a UK address which letters get sent to which are often kept solely by overseas to keep access to the UK banking facilities open rather than getting closed.

Either way, I can see why no one wants to help you with advices that potentially can be used by criminals to commit frauds on public forums.

Nothing is being hidden or obscured. HL, the provider of my existing SIPP, is very aware of my home address in Thailand and even writes to me here.

You say, if you were to use common sense, you wouldn't consider me UK resident. Let's just look at the evidence and see how it stacks up against your "common sense":

DWP Habitual Residency Test - Pass, UK resident
HMRC Statutory Residency Test - Pass - UK resident
HL SIPP provider - we had this discussion years ago, they are perfectly happy for me to operate my SIPP from overseas, because I maintain a UK residence.
Computershare (Registrar) - allows me to sell UK shares, because I have a UK residence and file a UK tax return.
HSBC UK - sends me replacement bank cards to Thailand.
Barclaycard UK - sends bills and cards to my address in Thailand and has allowed me to continue using the card, because I have a UK address etc.
Note: My Council Tax, Water and Electricity accounts are all paid via my UK bank account but the correspondence address is in Thailand, hence, nothing is hidden.

If there's another official test that anyone would like to subject me to, apart from the ridiculous, doesn't sleep in a UK bed every night test, please so advise.

I put it to you that the organisations above, all contradict what you call, your common sense!The concept of being resident in multiple countries is not one that the average man in the street usually has to consider. One doesn't become so, in order to break laws but rather to conform to them and maintain links with both the country of birth and the country of choice. 

JoeCrystal

And good for you! And as you now realise, it is entirely up to each organisation and business to make such decisions and can easily make their own decision to consider what counts as UK residence and rightly so. You did start the whole ball rolling by stating clearly that you are not a resident in the UK in the first place. Dunstonh just made it clear and indeed helpfully clarified the pitfalls relating to it, and consider how strict KYC are these days. But I think you are quite correct that you are pretty much beating the dead horse on this. 

chiang_mai

JoeCrystal said:

And good for you! And as you now realise, it is entirely up to each organisation and business to make such decisions and can easily make their own decision to consider what counts as UK residence and rightly so. You did start the whole ball rolling by stating clearly that you are not a resident in the UK in the first place. Dunstonh just made it clear and indeed helpfully clarified the pitfalls relating to it, and consider how strict KYC are these days. But I think you are quite correct that you are pretty much beating the dead horse on this. 

You took the word "resident" out of context and in isolation. I intended to convey that I am not present in the UK and as such, do not read the UK press in order to be able to answer my question fully. "Because I'm not resident in the UK, I don't read the UK press very much".

I guess the bottom line here is that nobody has anything useful to say on the subject of Fidelity as a SIPP provider.

eastcorkram

chiang_mai said:

JoeCrystal said:

And good for you! And as you now realise, it is entirely up to each organisation and business to make such decisions and can easily make their own decision to consider what counts as UK residence and rightly so. You did start the whole ball rolling by stating clearly that you are not a resident in the UK in the first place. Dunstonh just made it clear and indeed helpfully clarified the pitfalls relating to it, and consider how strict KYC are these days. But I think you are quite correct that you are pretty much beating the dead horse on this. 

I guess the bottom line here is that nobody has anything useful to say on the subject of Fidelity as a SIPP provider.

The reason I asked earlier if you have any experience of Fidelity, was because I have, together with HL. I realise everyone is going to have a preference as to which is better etc. After my question, you then mentioned that you'd asked a question of Fidelity, but not yet heard anything. Well, let's say, that, to me, is not a surprise. 

Good luck however it goes. I hope you get it sorted.