Mum is worried for her job, any advice welcome

frogga

Hi all,

My Mum is 76 and works for the NHS at our local hospital as an 'activities worker'. She has worked in the same place for 37 years. She started as a Physio Assistant, then the job role was changed to 'Nursing Assistant' and now she is called 'Activities Worker'. She works on a ward with people who have had a breakdown or severe depression and have sometimes attempted to harm themselves. She does activities with them to improve their mental health like physical activities and also music and cooking and nice fun things. She is adored by the patients and the staff alike and loves her job - hence why she does not want to retire.

All staff are being asked by management to undertake a qualification (I can't remember what it's called) to enable them to protect themselves if they find themselves in a situation where someone wants to hurt them. A self-defence without hurting the patients type of thing. Several of the staff cannot do this training as they physically unable - one lady has arthritis for example.

As mum is 76 she has told them she is unable to do such physical training too. She has very poor knees although is a very fit and healthy 76 (she walks a lot, cycles to work, Pilates, swimming etc). She has had a demo of the training and it requires you to be physically strong, which, at 5ft 2in and 9 stone she is not, and do a lot of kneeling down and bending which she is not able to do anymore.

So, management have told her that if she is not fit and able enough to do this now physically demanding role she should leave. My question is - can they do this? Does she have any rights? It is true that she cannot do this training, but she can do her job and has 37 years of experience and is excellent at her job. They want everyone on the ward to have the training, but many more people other than mum cannot do it either, and most of the ward is staffed by agency workers who have not done it.

Can they make her retire? My sister and I have wondered how long she would be able to carry on and if they now deem her unfit to do the role then surely she has to leave?

Any comments or advice welcome, but if you are just going to be rude and unkind please don't worry about replying.

Many thanks

Frogga

lincroft1710

They can dismiss her on capability grounds

elsien

it sounds like MAPA training or similar. The idea is to try and de-escalate problematic behaviours before someone gets hurt but can lead onto patients needing to be restrained in a worst case scenario so it’s about how someone can be safely restrained and having proper care plans which show how many people are needed to do it safely et cetera. 

It won’t just be about self defence. It will be about where interventions are needed to prevent people from self harming or harming property/others. And having been on wards where there’s an incident and they’ve had to call staff in from other wards to manage it safely it does make sense for more people to have the training where practicable. 

I would be asking the Trust for their policy on deciding who needs the training, given that it would appear to have recently changed. She could also potentially look up the current job description for the role and see what that says. 
They may be hoping that she leaves without making a fuss, but she could hang on in there and make them dismiss her on capability grounds. They would then have to justify why the training is essential for her role in particular.

My second thought would be is maybe this is an excuse and that perhaps she isn’t doing as well as she thinks she is, although the role has changed and they now wanted to do more than she has needed to do previously so they’re looking for an easy way out for her? 

frogga

Ah, I thought maybe that was the case, thank you for replying. They have offered all of those who can't do the course to do another role but she does not feel able to do any of those either (admin type jobs on a PC and she struggles with a phone!). She wants to do her job as she loves it and feels good at it, but things have changed. It's sad but my sister and I think she should retire to be honest. 

Marcon

frogga said:

Hi all,

My Mum is 76 and works for the NHS at our local hospital as an 'activities worker'. She has worked in the same place for 37 years. She started as a Physio Assistant, then the job role was changed to 'Nursing Assistant' and now she is called 'Activities Worker'. She works on a ward with people who have had a breakdown or severe depression and have sometimes attempted to harm themselves. She does activities with them to improve their mental health like physical activities and also music and cooking and nice fun things. She is adored by the patients and the staff alike and loves her job - hence why she does not want to retire.

All staff are being asked by management to undertake a qualification (I can't remember what it's called) to enable them to protect themselves if they find themselves in a situation where someone wants to hurt them. A self-defence without hurting the patients type of thing. Several of the staff cannot do this training as they physically unable - one lady has arthritis for example.

As mum is 76 she has told them she is unable to do such physical training too. She has very poor knees although is a very fit and healthy 76 (she walks a lot, cycles to work, Pilates, swimming etc). She has had a demo of the training and it requires you to be physically strong, which, at 5ft 2in and 9 stone she is not, and do a lot of kneeling down and bending which she is not able to do anymore.

So, management have told her that if she is not fit and able enough to do this now physically demanding role she should leave. My question is - can they do this? Does she have any rights? It is true that she cannot do this training, but she can do her job and has 37 years of experience and is excellent at her job. They want everyone on the ward to have the training, but many more people other than mum cannot do it either, and most of the ward is staffed by agency workers who have not done it.

Can they make her retire? My sister and I have wondered how long she would be able to carry on and if they now deem her unfit to do the role then surely she has to leave?

Any comments or advice welcome, but if you are just going to be rude and unkind please don't worry about replying.

Many thanks

Frogga

The world could do with plenty more people like your mum...and the NHS most certainly could. The snag is that in an increasingly litigious world, even if your mum would never dream of suing her employer, management has to be aware of the risks of retaining an employee who is 76, not in peak physical health, and is physically unable to undertake what sounds like a basic self-defence course.

They can't force her to 'retire', but they can (sadly) dismiss on the grounds that she is no longer physically able to meet the demands of her job now that it includes what appears to be mandatory training.

frogga

Thank you Marcon, once again your comments are very kind and fair. I thought this might be the case, but she is very upset as she feels she still has so much to offer, and she feels very hard done by. She loves her job so much, it keeps her going, and the patients that get well and go home always say it's due to her patience and kindness. She will be so lost without it, and she will have to spend more time with my step-dad which is really worrying!!! he he he 

elsien

There may be other (perhaps voluntary?) services out there who could use her support.
Parent was working as a volunteer with Homestart until a similar age,  and grandparent used to do meals on wheels in a community kitchen for the “old folk” who she was actually older than.
Feeling and being useful is important. She could even explore whether the hospital (or a different one ) would accept her as a volunteer where there wouldn’t be the same onerous training  requirements?

frogga

Thank you Elsien, this is very true, she absolutely could look into this xxx

(I expect the money is something she doesn't want to lose too    but she wil have to accept her limitations now)

powerspowers

That’s a shame if your mum can’t do the job she loves, and that benefits her patients. 

I think there is something about making the employer go through the process of dismissal due to capability rather than just leaving. That might be to do with benefits or onward employment so may not be relevant to your mum- although it may affect redundancy pay or pension etc. is she in a union, it may be worth getting advice 

Savvy_Sue

Definitely speak to her union, if a member. (If not, I find it terrifying how many people work in frontline 'people' services without being in a union!)

frogga

Thank you Powers and SavvySue xx

Mum is defo in the Union and has asked for advice although I dont know what they are doing to help, if indeed they can?  

She took her pension at 60 and did a 'retire and return' meaning she retired on the Friday and came back on the Monday. She takes her pension and her salary (she only works part time so takes home £1,000 a month pay). I wondered about redundancy as they want to get rid of the role 'activity worker' ? She is taking it personally but I dont think it is personal actually?