Guy at Halfords trying to put me off buying single speed ebike.

Nasqueron

SneakySpectator said:

Update to this thread. 

I decided to buy a geared folding ebike, Estarli is the brand name. They're a British brand all built in the UK and I've seen a fair few of them around where I live. 

I went with the E20.7 Pro (7 gears) and first impressions is it's amazing, such a joy to ride. I did a 15 mile test run yesterday and hardly ever needed to use power levels 4 or 5 with 1, 2 and 3 where just fine for 95% of the ride.

I was a bit sceptical because it has a cadence sensor instead of a torque sensor but actually having now tried the cadence sensor I prefer it over torque. 

The only criticism I have of this bike is the cables that come out of the frame up towards the hand bars, it would be nice if they were hidden in the handle bar stem and only came out at the very top but it's fine. The folding mechanism is super simple and quick so it's easy to carry up 3 flights of stairs. 

Really happy with this purchase!

When you say torque, are talking about power meter? A cadence sensor can be had for a few quid hooked up to a bike computer - though I suspect you'll need to pay more for one that works with the system. Power meters are much more expensive and are pointless for a casual rider, you use them to train with e.g. working in different zones

Just FYI Estarli are designed and assembled in the UK from their site, I would be interested to see if they actually make the frames themselves and I suspect the motors etc are imports. Rare these days outside of custom bikes to get them from anywhere but Asia, I have an Italian one made from scratch in their factory but it does cost a lot!

SneakySpectator

Nasqueron said:

SneakySpectator said:

Update to this thread. 

I decided to buy a geared folding ebike, Estarli is the brand name. They're a British brand all built in the UK and I've seen a fair few of them around where I live. 

I went with the E20.7 Pro (7 gears) and first impressions is it's amazing, such a joy to ride. I did a 15 mile test run yesterday and hardly ever needed to use power levels 4 or 5 with 1, 2 and 3 where just fine for 95% of the ride.

I was a bit sceptical because it has a cadence sensor instead of a torque sensor but actually having now tried the cadence sensor I prefer it over torque. 

The only criticism I have of this bike is the cables that come out of the frame up towards the hand bars, it would be nice if they were hidden in the handle bar stem and only came out at the very top but it's fine. The folding mechanism is super simple and quick so it's easy to carry up 3 flights of stairs. 

Really happy with this purchase!

When you say torque, are talking about power meter? A cadence sensor can be had for a few quid hooked up to a bike computer - though I suspect you'll need to pay more for one that works with the system. Power meters are much more expensive and are pointless for a casual rider, you use them to train with e.g. working in different zones

Just FYI Estarli are designed and assembled in the UK from their site, I would be interested to see if they actually make the frames themselves and I suspect the motors etc are imports. Rare these days outside of custom bikes to get them from anywhere but Asia, I have an Italian one made from scratch in their factory but it does cost a lot!

So from my understanding a cadence sensor is triggered based on pedal rotation speed, the faster your pedals turn, the more power the motor gives you. Torque sensor is triggered based on pressure on the pedals, the more pressure you put down the more power it gives you. 

I'm sure it's possible to throw together a temu DIY ebike kit for £50 on a regular !!!!!! bike but I'm not about that. I'd much rather just buy a bike that's already nice and well build with all the electronics integrated and functioning etc. 

Don't have time to start messing around with all that nonsense. 

Nasqueron

SneakySpectator said:

Nasqueron said:

SneakySpectator said:

Update to this thread. 

I decided to buy a geared folding ebike, Estarli is the brand name. They're a British brand all built in the UK and I've seen a fair few of them around where I live. 

I went with the E20.7 Pro (7 gears) and first impressions is it's amazing, such a joy to ride. I did a 15 mile test run yesterday and hardly ever needed to use power levels 4 or 5 with 1, 2 and 3 where just fine for 95% of the ride.

I was a bit sceptical because it has a cadence sensor instead of a torque sensor but actually having now tried the cadence sensor I prefer it over torque. 

The only criticism I have of this bike is the cables that come out of the frame up towards the hand bars, it would be nice if they were hidden in the handle bar stem and only came out at the very top but it's fine. The folding mechanism is super simple and quick so it's easy to carry up 3 flights of stairs. 

Really happy with this purchase!

When you say torque, are talking about power meter? A cadence sensor can be had for a few quid hooked up to a bike computer - though I suspect you'll need to pay more for one that works with the system. Power meters are much more expensive and are pointless for a casual rider, you use them to train with e.g. working in different zones

Just FYI Estarli are designed and assembled in the UK from their site, I would be interested to see if they actually make the frames themselves and I suspect the motors etc are imports. Rare these days outside of custom bikes to get them from anywhere but Asia, I have an Italian one made from scratch in their factory but it does cost a lot!

So from my understanding a cadence sensor is triggered based on pedal rotation speed, the faster your pedals turn, the more power the motor gives you. Torque sensor is triggered based on pressure on the pedals, the more pressure you put down the more power it gives you. 

I'm sure it's possible to throw together a temu DIY ebike kit for £50 on a regular !!!!!! bike but I'm not about that. I'd much rather just buy a bike that's already nice and well build with all the electronics integrated and functioning etc. 

Don't have time to start messing around with all that nonsense. 

Cadence is RPM yes

Power meters measure your output yes, good for training, not for a commuting ride

QrizB

Nasqueron said:

SneakySpectator said:

Nasqueron said:

SneakySpectator said:

Update to this thread. 

I decided to buy a geared folding ebike, Estarli is the brand name. They're a British brand all built in the UK and I've seen a fair few of them around where I live. 

I went with the E20.7 Pro (7 gears) and first impressions is it's amazing, such a joy to ride. I did a 15 mile test run yesterday and hardly ever needed to use power levels 4 or 5 with 1, 2 and 3 where just fine for 95% of the ride.

I was a bit sceptical because it has a cadence sensor instead of a torque sensor but actually having now tried the cadence sensor I prefer it over torque. 

The only criticism I have of this bike is the cables that come out of the frame up towards the hand bars, it would be nice if they were hidden in the handle bar stem and only came out at the very top but it's fine. The folding mechanism is super simple and quick so it's easy to carry up 3 flights of stairs. 

Really happy with this purchase!

When you say torque, are talking about power meter? A cadence sensor can be had for a few quid hooked up to a bike computer - though I suspect you'll need to pay more for one that works with the system. Power meters are much more expensive and are pointless for a casual rider, you use them to train with e.g. working in different zones

Just FYI Estarli are designed and assembled in the UK from their site, I would be interested to see if they actually make the frames themselves and I suspect the motors etc are imports. Rare these days outside of custom bikes to get them from anywhere but Asia, I have an Italian one made from scratch in their factory but it does cost a lot!

So from my understanding a cadence sensor is triggered based on pedal rotation speed, the faster your pedals turn, the more power the motor gives you. Torque sensor is triggered based on pressure on the pedals, the more pressure you put down the more power it gives you. 

I'm sure it's possible to throw together a temu DIY ebike kit for £50 on a regular !!!!!! bike but I'm not about that. I'd much rather just buy a bike that's already nice and well build with all the electronics integrated and functioning etc. 

Don't have time to start messing around with all that nonsense. 

Cadence is RPM yes
Power meters measure your output yes, good for training, not for a commuting ride

I think you're talking at cross purposes.

SneakySpectator is discussing the two main ways that ebikes manage their power assist - with either a cadence sensor or a torque sensor. 

Nasqueron is talking about something entirely different.

Nasqueron

QrizB said:

Nasqueron said:

SneakySpectator said:

Nasqueron said:

SneakySpectator said:

Update to this thread. 

I decided to buy a geared folding ebike, Estarli is the brand name. They're a British brand all built in the UK and I've seen a fair few of them around where I live. 

I went with the E20.7 Pro (7 gears) and first impressions is it's amazing, such a joy to ride. I did a 15 mile test run yesterday and hardly ever needed to use power levels 4 or 5 with 1, 2 and 3 where just fine for 95% of the ride.

I was a bit sceptical because it has a cadence sensor instead of a torque sensor but actually having now tried the cadence sensor I prefer it over torque. 

The only criticism I have of this bike is the cables that come out of the frame up towards the hand bars, it would be nice if they were hidden in the handle bar stem and only came out at the very top but it's fine. The folding mechanism is super simple and quick so it's easy to carry up 3 flights of stairs. 

Really happy with this purchase!

When you say torque, are talking about power meter? A cadence sensor can be had for a few quid hooked up to a bike computer - though I suspect you'll need to pay more for one that works with the system. Power meters are much more expensive and are pointless for a casual rider, you use them to train with e.g. working in different zones

Just FYI Estarli are designed and assembled in the UK from their site, I would be interested to see if they actually make the frames themselves and I suspect the motors etc are imports. Rare these days outside of custom bikes to get them from anywhere but Asia, I have an Italian one made from scratch in their factory but it does cost a lot!

So from my understanding a cadence sensor is triggered based on pedal rotation speed, the faster your pedals turn, the more power the motor gives you. Torque sensor is triggered based on pressure on the pedals, the more pressure you put down the more power it gives you. 

I'm sure it's possible to throw together a temu DIY ebike kit for £50 on a regular !!!!!! bike but I'm not about that. I'd much rather just buy a bike that's already nice and well build with all the electronics integrated and functioning etc. 

Don't have time to start messing around with all that nonsense. 

Cadence is RPM yes
Power meters measure your output yes, good for training, not for a commuting ride

I think you're talking at cross purposes.

SneakySpectator is discussing the two main ways that ebikes manage their power assist - with either a cadence sensor or a torque sensor. 

Nasqueron is talking about something entirely different.

It's my understanding that an e-bike with a torque sensor is still measuring power output of the user, it's used to help measure the amount of assistance needed and thus help reduce battery use while the cadence sensor is just based on pedalling speed so while it's cheaper, it is less smooth assistance and indirectly causes more battery drain. In that sense I see I was talking about the wrong thing, but do the torque sensors not give you power data or are they not complex enough like an actual power meter?

Johnmcl7

I've not seen an e-bike with a torque sensor that showed rider power and looking at the prices of these sensors compared to power meters I doubt they'd be able to since the latter are much more expensive.  While a torque sensor is measuring the input from the user it doesn't need the accuracy of a power meter which is where the much higher cost comes in.

Nasqueron

Johnmcl7 said:

I've not seen an e-bike with a torque sensor that showed rider power and looking at the prices of these sensors compared to power meters I doubt they'd be able to since the latter are much more expensive.  While a torque sensor is measuring the input from the user it doesn't need the accuracy of a power meter which is where the much higher cost comes in.

That seems logical yes, thanks. I don't have an e-bike so no idea what the price difference is vs cadence power boost but power meters are definitely expensive even for single side crank ones!

Johnmcl7

I only have experience with power meters but they're mostly crank based and a few hundred pounds to begin with, torque sensors on the other appear to be usually BB based or hub based and under 100 pounds.  Which makes sense because the e-bike doesn't need a precise power reading just a rough idea how much the rider is pushing.

SneakySpectator - Hope you enjoy the new bike and personally I wouldn't be bothered about not getting a belt drive bike.  I did buy a belt drive bike myself as they looked great and while I initially liked it, I ended up replacing with a chain drive bike.  The belt and sprocket wore very prematurely due to use in the rain according to the manufacturer despite them promoting it as an all weather system, the parts are expensive, can be hard to get a hold of and you can't repair the belt if it goes wrong.  

Chains are noisier and need more maintenance but they've last far longer for me, they're cheap, can be bought from just about any bike shop if it's nothing too exotic and quick links allow you to repair them out on a ride if the chain breaks.

SneakySpectator

Johnmcl7 said:

I only have experience with power meters but they're mostly crank based and a few hundred pounds to begin with, torque sensors on the other appear to be usually BB based or hub based and under 100 pounds.  Which makes sense because the e-bike doesn't need a precise power reading just a rough idea how much the rider is pushing.

SneakySpectator - Hope you enjoy the new bike and personally I wouldn't be bothered about not getting a belt drive bike.  I did buy a belt drive bike myself as they looked great and while I initially liked it, I ended up replacing with a chain drive bike.  The belt and sprocket wore very prematurely due to use in the rain according to the manufacturer despite them promoting it as an all weather system, the parts are expensive, can be hard to get a hold of and you can't repair the belt if it goes wrong.  

Chains are noisier and need more maintenance but they've last far longer for me, they're cheap, can be bought from just about any bike shop if it's nothing too exotic and quick links allow you to repair them out on a ride if the chain breaks.

I've got 50 miles on the bike and no complaints so far. I love how I can do a casual 10 mile ride without getting hot and sweaty or tired legs. I don't dread it every time I see a hill or have to stop at a light because it's so easy for me to build momentum again. 

I'll never go back to a regular bike. I think it's good for my mental health too because now I'm using the bike all the time whereas my regular bike would sit unused for weeks because it wasn't enjoyable to ride.

Nonesuch_xx

Nasqueron said: 

<snipped>

Just FYI Estarli are designed and assembled in the UK from their site, I would be interested to see if they actually make the frames themselves and I suspect the motors etc are imports. Rare these days outside of custom bikes to get them from anywhere but Asia, I have an Italian one made from scratch in their factory but it does cost a lot!

It's fairly well known that the bike component supply chain (regular and e-bike) is pretty consolidated with few competing suppliers.  

Everything can be bought in as a component; and it is hard to innovate in most areas.