Budgens Pension Scheme

Nick9967

Hi all 
My wife worked for Budgens for 5 years early 2000's and was a member of what i believe was their DB scheme, the reason i say believe is that as I'm going through all of our finances in prep for semi retirement (me) in  2/3 years i realized we have no paperwork for this pension at all.
so i had my OH mail the pension administrators and ask for an update, any sort of schedule/prediction/fc whatever based on her retiring at 60 and 67 (now 50) 

The answer she received is as follows:
We refer to recent request regarding your retirement benefits under the above-mentioned scheme.
We would like to inform you that as you will reach age 55 after 6th April 2028, therefore you will be affected by the minimum retirement age increasing to age 57.
Also be advised that it is a mandatory requirement for all Pension Schemes to comply with UK Government Legislation.
Due to the scheme rules, the minimum retirement age is 57 and a projection of benefit is not possible as we are unable to predict future statutory rates.
Once you will reach out to your minimum retirement age, you can reach out within 6 months of your minimum age, and we will provide you the quotation pack.
Once you will select available option we will settle your benefits, and you will start receiving your pension from that date.
For a retirement quotation pack, we would request you to contact us within 6 months of reaching the age of 57.
Please be advised that you hold the benefits with Budgens pension plan and date of joining into this scheme is 11 September 2002 and date of exit is 14 September 2007.

I find it hard to believe they cant supply anything at all until 6 months prior to earliest date at 57, how on earth are you supposed to plan!

anyone had any experience with Budgens or anything similar? any advice on the "most efficient wording" to go back to them with would be gratefully received, I'd like to be as precise and uncomplicated as i can.

thanks all 

Exodi

It sounds like they're unwilling to forecast what pension you might receive in 10 or 17 years (because that would require them to guess what inflation will be). I'd imagine if they did do this, then in a decades time they'd be met with upset pensioners complaining "you said I'd get £12k per year but I'm only getting £10.5k - I'm now short £1.5k, what are you going to do about it?".

My wife pension provider provides annual statements showing her current position (as in if she took her pension now and she was of pension age, she would get X much). We could then estimate what inflation might be ourselves for a retirement projection. I'm not sure they would be happy to be the ones guessing how much she might get in a decade or two.

Marcon

Plenty of schemes would give a similar answer. Quite apart from the cost of providing projections, in the absence of a crystal ball, they are guaranteed to be wrong - and however many times the words 'projection', 'not guaranteed' etc are plastered all over the paperwork, members still come back and complain later that they were 'misled'.

If pressed, many schemes will simply send a copy of your leaving service statement (or in this case your wife's), with an indication of how the benefits would 'revalue' in deferment. Get your wife to ask if she can have an updated statement giving the value of her benefits as of now and payable at the scheme's Normal Retirement Date, taking into account revaluation since she left active membership of the scheme, and see what they say.

Nick9967

Exodi said:

It sounds like they're unwilling to forecast what pension you might receive in 10 or 17 years (because that would require them to guess what inflation will be?). I'd imagine if they did do this, then in a decades time they'd be met with upset pensioners complaining "you said I'd get £12k per year but I'm only getting £10.5k - I'm now short £1.5k, what are you going to do about it?".

My wife pension provides annual statements showing her current position (as in if she took her pension now and she was of pension age, she would get X much). We could then estimate what inflation might be ourselves for a retirement projection. I'm not sure they would necessarily be happy to guess how much she might get in a decade or two.

I'd be more than happy if they could provide something showing current position , as you say i'd do my own projections based on their standards, but nothing at all doesn't sit well with me, no paperwork , no statements etc  

Exodi

Sorry to say the obvious but have you asked them for that or the value when she left? From your OP it sounds like you just asked them for a forecast?

"i had my OH mail the pension administrators and ask for an update, any sort of schedule/prediction/fc whatever based on her retiring at 60 and 67 (now 50) "

FIREDreamer

Nick9967 said:

Exodi said:

It sounds like they're unwilling to forecast what pension you might receive in 10 or 17 years (because that would require them to guess what inflation will be?). I'd imagine if they did do this, then in a decades time they'd be met with upset pensioners complaining "you said I'd get £12k per year but I'm only getting £10.5k - I'm now short £1.5k, what are you going to do about it?".

My wife pension provides annual statements showing her current position (as in if she took her pension now and she was of pension age, she would get X much). We could then estimate what inflation might be ourselves for a retirement projection. I'm not sure they would necessarily be happy to guess how much she might get in a decade or two.

I'd be more than happy if they could provide something showing current position , as you say i'd do my own projections based on their standards, but nothing at all doesn't sit well with me, no paperwork , no statements etc  

You could work out the current position if you had the values at date of leaving (plus details of how it increases in deferment and in payment). Might be easier for them to provide that?

Nick9967

FIREDreamer said:

Nick9967 said:

Exodi said:

It sounds like they're unwilling to forecast what pension you might receive in 10 or 17 years (because that would require them to guess what inflation will be?). I'd imagine if they did do this, then in a decades time they'd be met with upset pensioners complaining "you said I'd get £12k per year but I'm only getting £10.5k - I'm now short £1.5k, what are you going to do about it?".

My wife pension provides annual statements showing her current position (as in if she took her pension now and she was of pension age, she would get X much). We could then estimate what inflation might be ourselves for a retirement projection. I'm not sure they would necessarily be happy to guess how much she might get in a decade or two.

I'd be more than happy if they could provide something showing current position , as you say i'd do my own projections based on their standards, but nothing at all doesn't sit well with me, no paperwork , no statements etc  

You could work out the current position if you had the values at date of leaving (plus details of how it increases in deferment and in payment). Might be easier for them to provide that?

yes its exactly this type of information I'm after, thanks all useful as always , I've taken some points from each of your posts and constructed a more "reasonable" request to get us started! 

hyubh

Nick9967 said:

FIREDreamer said:

Nick9967 said:

Exodi said:

It sounds like they're unwilling to forecast what pension you might receive in 10 or 17 years (because that would require them to guess what inflation will be?). I'd imagine if they did do this, then in a decades time they'd be met with upset pensioners complaining "you said I'd get £12k per year but I'm only getting £10.5k - I'm now short £1.5k, what are you going to do about it?".

My wife pension provides annual statements showing her current position (as in if she took her pension now and she was of pension age, she would get X much). We could then estimate what inflation might be ourselves for a retirement projection. I'm not sure they would necessarily be happy to guess how much she might get in a decade or two.

I'd be more than happy if they could provide something showing current position , as you say i'd do my own projections based on their standards, but nothing at all doesn't sit well with me, no paperwork , no statements etc  

You could work out the current position if you had the values at date of leaving (plus details of how it increases in deferment and in payment). Might be easier for them to provide that?

yes its exactly this type of information I'm after, thanks all useful as always , I've taken some points from each of your posts and constructed a more "reasonable" request to get us started! 

Ask for the following information:
- Pension at leaving
- Pension revalued to date (or at least, some time during the last 13 months); provision of this as a matter of course is becoming a requirement under the Pensions Dashboard initiative (see here and here), and the administrator should be at least preparing for this
- The revaluation basis, e.g. section 52a orders (= statutory for private sector), and if so, whether the whole pension is higher revaluation (5% cap) or if a component is lower (2.5% cap)
- I wouldn't expect any GMP, but doesn't help not to get confirmation (GMP only arose from pre-97 membership, but it was possible to transfer it between pension schemes)

PS - having the pension revalued to date + knowledge of the revaluation basis is more useful than a hypothetical figure at retirement, since you can then just make your own inflation assumptions. If 2.5%, then by definition the pension on retirement is going to be same in real terms as the pension revalued to date, even if part of the pension attracts 'lower revaluation'.

german_keeper

My wife had a DB pension from when she worked for Norwich Union in the 80s and 90s. We made a similar request a few years ago and they wouldn't supply any kind of forecast. They did however supply a very detailed breakdown of the entitlement at date of leaving and the rates at which different parts of the pension would be increased, GMP and non GMP.

A company called XPS Administration and I was very impressed with the service. She is 60 next February so we will shortly be contacting XPS regards the process for claiming. It will be interesting to see how accurate my calculations have been. 

DH124

Hi - does anyone have the email address please for the Budgens DB scheme administrators.  Thanks in advance