Teaching assistant pay cut - can they?

thommo41

Good afternoon. Looking for advice from anybody who has either been or is a TA and has been through a consultation where the outcome is a pay cut. My wife’s school have started the consultation period off the back of financial issues at the school. No teachers, or other school employees including office admin etc are affected. But teaching assistants are to take an effective pay cut as a result of dropping the pay grade from 5 to 4. My wife tells me that the union has said this is entirely ok for them to do and if you don’t accept you are out of a job. Is that true? Surely this is effectively accept or be made redundant? Or is a TA really so far down the pecking order they can simply change your contract and you have no say? Doesn’t seem right. This will be an effective pay cut of around 16% according to their letter? This seems so wrong just looking for some advice. The union rep seemed to suggest they can do this if you don’t accept you have no valid contract anymore? Any help much appreciated and for any TA’s out there I really do feel for you, overworked and undervalued before now and then this! Wow. 

Marcon

thommo41 said:

Good afternoon. Looking for advice from anybody who has either been or is a TA and has been through a consultation where the outcome is a pay cut. My wife’s school have started the consultation period off the back of financial issues at the school. No teachers, or other school employees including office admin etc are affected. But teaching assistants are to take an effective pay cut as a result of dropping the pay grade from 5 to 4. My wife tells me that the union has said this is entirely ok for them to do and if you don’t accept you are out of a job. Is that true? Surely this is effectively accept or be made redundant? Or is a TA really so far down the pecking order they can simply change your contract and you have no say? Doesn’t seem right. This will be an effective pay cut of around 16% according to their letter? This seems so wrong just looking for some advice. The union rep seemed to suggest they can do this if you don’t accept you have no valid contract anymore? Any help much appreciated and for any TA’s out there I really do feel for you, overworked and undervalued before now and then this! Wow. 

Horrible for your wife (and you).

Redundancy doesn't enter into it - the job will still exist. It's either accept or your contract will be terminated. Provided that the employer follows the correct consultation/notice periods then yes, they can do what they intend to do, as the union has already confirmed.

I'm sorry that is such a dismal answer and not what you wanted to hear.

Savvy_Sue

There's a school locally suggesting they can cut their TA numbers from I think 8 to 5, and somehow this won't affect the help given to the children.

So I'm guessing the school is just desperately trying to balance the budget, and thinks the number of roles can't be reduced.

If the union say it can't be challenged, there won't be much support in fighting it, but it may be worth checking with union HQ rather than just a local rep.

Spendless

This happened to my neighbour (school caretaker) a couple of years ago. The job was about to go down a paygrade. He said I'll take early retirement instead and left. 

Spendless

Savvy_Sue said:

There's a school locally suggesting they can cut their TA numbers from I think 8 to 5, and somehow this won't affect the help given to the children.

So I'm guessing the school is just desperately trying to balance the budget, and thinks the number of roles can't be reduced.

Hmmmmm I have a more cynical view, that its reducing staff via the backdoor. Down grade the payband, the TAs are unhappy, some leave over it. They arent replaced. No redundancy payments have been needed and now they have less staff who are lower paid. The isssues do arise when all their experienced staff leave over it all, but places dont always have that foresight. 

Grumpy_chap

thommo41 said:

teaching assistants are to take an effective pay cut as a result of dropping the pay grade from 5 to 4. My wife tells me that the union has said this is entirely ok for them to do and if you don’t accept you are out of a job. 

Is there an actual pay cut as part of the change?
What is the salary range of Grade 5 and Grade 4?
It is not unusual for salary ranges to overlap, so maybe (all made up figures):

• Grade 5 £19k to £29k
• Grade 4 £17k to £27k
• Wife's actual salary £24k

If that is the case, then the change of grade has no immediate impact.  It means that new staff can be brought on at lower starting salary and existing staff cannot increase their salary as high, but the change can be implemented with no actual pay cuts.  It would mean slower increases, or even no increase while your wife is re-aligned to the same point within the band.

Is there more detail in the response from the Union than "it's OK"?

How do the salary bands compare with the national pay scales?
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-pay-scales-for-eligible-teaching-and-education-jobs/national-pay-scales-for-eligible-teaching-and-education-leadership-occupation-codes
Is the school aligned with the national pay scales?

Undervalued

Marcon said:

thommo41 said:

Good afternoon. Looking for advice from anybody who has either been or is a TA and has been through a consultation where the outcome is a pay cut. My wife’s school have started the consultation period off the back of financial issues at the school. No teachers, or other school employees including office admin etc are affected. But teaching assistants are to take an effective pay cut as a result of dropping the pay grade from 5 to 4. My wife tells me that the union has said this is entirely ok for them to do and if you don’t accept you are out of a job. Is that true? Surely this is effectively accept or be made redundant? Or is a TA really so far down the pecking order they can simply change your contract and you have no say? Doesn’t seem right. This will be an effective pay cut of around 16% according to their letter? This seems so wrong just looking for some advice. The union rep seemed to suggest they can do this if you don’t accept you have no valid contract anymore? Any help much appreciated and for any TA’s out there I really do feel for you, overworked and undervalued before now and then this! Wow. 

Horrible for your wife (and you).

Redundancy doesn't enter into it - the job will still exist. It's either accept or your contract will be terminated. Provided that the employer follows the correct consultation/notice periods then yes, they can do what they intend to do, as the union has already confirmed.

I'm sorry that is such a dismal answer and not what you wanted to hear.

Well, only in so far as the employer will no doubt argue that, due to financial constraints, the only alternative to this pay cut would be to make one or more of the TA posts redundant.

An employer has a duty to consider alternative / lesser steps than redundancy if at all possible.

Nothanks

Sadly if they are proposing reduction in ranges/hours as an alternative to redundancy then there isn’t much to be done. 

Savvy_Sue

Spendless said:

Savvy_Sue said:

There's a school locally suggesting they can cut their TA numbers from I think 8 to 5, and somehow this won't affect the help given to the children.

So I'm guessing the school is just desperately trying to balance the budget, and thinks the number of roles can't be reduced.

Hmmmmm I have a more cynical view, that its reducing staff via the backdoor. Down grade the payband, the TAs are unhappy, some leave over it. They arent replaced. No redundancy payments have been needed and now they have less staff who are lower paid. The isssues do arise when all their experienced staff leave over it all, but places dont always have that foresight. 

You may be right at that. It still leaves the fantasy that the same work can be done with fewer TAs ... 

thommo41

For some reason I got no notifications of any replies, I thought I'd better check back in and glad I did. Thanks everybody for your responses. All pretty much bad news but it's great to get the opinions. I never thought in a million years a move from admin to a TA in education would be a bad call, but it's seemingly becoming that. No fun for anybody, hopefully she will have options to switch careers again but it's tough out there. The letter detailed the changes in full and it equated to a drop of take home of around 16% which is absolutely staggering given the COL rises of way lower than that causing so many other roles and industries to agree pay INCREASES! A message to all TA's out there - it's criminal how you get treated for the most part, but on salaries also, it's a real shame it's come to this nowadays with budgets being so tight

sheramber

Many years ago a local , well k own firm offered its employees to take a 10% pay cut or face redundancies. 

The employees agreed to the pay cut.