Did I mess up my appeal or was it ignored? Do I have a chance in court? Help.

Nature_At

Hi All, 

I've read a lot on this forum, and I'm torn whether I should pay the PCN or not. I would extremely appreciate honest advice.

I've broken down my situation below:

Context: 

I parked outside a place called Kelly's Garage in Luton. I was picking up my parent up who did not feel well and needed to return from the Holiday early, I rushed to get there to ensure I could drive them home, the stress of the situation may have contributed to this. I was a bit early and I parked 14 minutes at the location at which I received the PCN. I saw somewhere near that seemed like somewhere I could pull in before I drive elsewhere, that I can pick them up. I saw a car there and decided to pull in. The other car was behind me (closer to the private land gates). 

Some time later I received the PCN from Universal Parking Enforement (member of the IPC - portal.theipc.info/aos-members/u) asking for £100, reduced to £60 if paid now and decided to appeal it for the reasons in the text later in the post. That is it. I forgot about this until I received a letter from collections (TNC Collections) asking for £170. The working of the letter seemed scary at first, saying to ACT TODAY ect, however, thinking about it more it made me feel a bit angry. 

If I wanted peace, I would have paid it but it just doesn't seem right out of principle. Money aside, which still matters in those times, and £170 is still a significant amount, I do not like how this came about and I hope the outcome of this will enable be to be better advice to others (randomers, friends, colleagues), especially after looking over some other posts. 

My issue: 

The below outlines some issues with taking the decision whether to pay or not.

1.a. I appealed my claim through the website of the organisation that sent the PCN (viewmypcn.parkdubbo.com). I went on the website and put together a case to appeal my PCN; the reason listed below, and I submitted it. I reminded myself of it a few times in the coming months, but I didn't hear anything so I thought they gave up and didn't notify me. 

1.b. I went on the website of the PCN upon recieving the letter from collectors and there is no record of my appeal, the issue is also that I also have no email confirmation, letter etc. The webiste also has a 'delivery log' bottom which just states my emial and next to it: "No Action performed Yet". 

Additionally, my PCN came to my old address where my parents live, I changed this at some point during the 7 months of this, which is now current through DVLA, however, I cannot find any letter and I scanned all letter I recive and upload to OneDrive. I'm doubting myself whether I did appeal it but I remeber uploading images and typing it out. I feel gaslit. 

2.a. I parked at night and with all honesty, at the time I didn't actually see a sign that said no parking and I only realised as I was leaving and looking at the oncoming side. The sign stated in large font: "no parking outside the entry gates 24h access required". I didnt park outside the gates, but rather tried to be as far as possible and outside seemed ambiguous at the time. 

The actual gate states: "Private Land: no parking allowed at any time.". This sign was attached to the PCN and the sign is really small, even on the image they sent I can't read anything except that. I understand it till now this is not to park outside the gate or obstruct them. 

b. The sign did clearly say not to park outside the entry gates, I was around 10m away from the gate (measured from Google Earth), but still I only noticed till too late.

I was also parked halfway across a double yellow and double red line off the main road. 

Location: Kelly's Garage, Airport Way, Luton LU2 9LF.

Conclusion

I learnt things that I will keep an eye out for, a lot I did before, I just didn't do it now for some reason. Including keeping a record of screenshots of when I submit appeals. 

I also understand what I did wrong in what I did at the time, however, this whole situation just doesn't sit right with me. 

Honestly, I would 100% have paid this if I had been informed I failed the appeal. I would have tried the IPC appeal first (which I read is mostly a kangaroo court anyway), but I would have paid it after that, as I've done previously. But now it is gone from the £100 cap to £170 out of nowhere in my eyes at least.

Can someone please advise on what I should do? Pay now or ignore and it risk going to Court.

If I go to Court and lose, is there a cap to how much I would have to pay? Any estimates to help me assess the risk?

Coupon-mad

I received the PCN from Universal Parking Enforcement.

Please show that PCN, both sides. We do NOT need to see the daft £170 threatograms (obviously ignore TNC)!

Just the PCN x 2 photos please.

Honestly, I would 100% have paid this if I had been informed I failed the appeal.  

Eh?!  No way!  Why on earth would you pay a scam private PCN all the time that the industry is rotten and overdue government regulation?

You'll learn by reading the forum a bit more; start with the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread with the £170 threatogram images to ignore. No link. See my signature.

  

fisherjim

"Private Land: no parking allowed at any time".

Which is a forbidding sign, the private parking company is offering nothing for the fee they are asking.

In effect it's trespass which a third party scammer cannot make a charge for.

You wouldn't go into John Lewis and pay them £100 for nothing and walk out would you?

Nature_At

As an update, please find the PCN attached with my detailes blanked out, the back was empty from memory. 
I did not recive the 2nd letter asking for £100/100 as mentioned in my main post. 


In relation to some comments, thank you all so far for the replies. 

I thought I was at fault just by being in the way of potentially being in the way of their vehicles to the gate, however I was far away. 

Again this is all new to me and honestly, I'll probably go on a goose chase on other forum topics to explore other 'things' I should propobably be aware of and stand up for. 

Nature_At

Coupon-mad said:

I received the PCN from Universal Parking Enforcement.

Please show that PCN, both sides. We do NOT need to see the daft £170 threatograms (obviously ignore TNC)!

Just the PCN x 2 photos please.

Honestly, I would 100% have paid this if I had been informed I failed the appeal.  

Eh?!  No way!  Why on earth would you pay a scam private PCN all the time that the industry is rotten and overdue government regulation?

You'll learn by reading the forum a bit more; start with the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread with the £170 threatogram images to ignore. No link. See my signature.

  

Ive provided the information above in addition, I couldnt find aything about the fees if I lose in Court for whatever reason. Is there somewhere I can look up examples?

Nature_At

fisherjim said:

"Private Land: no parking allowed at any time".

Which is a forbidding sign, the private parking company is offering nothing for the fee they are asking.

In effect it's trespass which a third party scammer cannot make a charge for.

You wouldn't go into John Lewis and pay them £100 for nothing and walk out would you?

Thank you for your response. Can I ask you to expand on that please? 

Are they not justified to prohibit parking in proximity of their gates? Im just playing devils adicate if this goes to court. 

Also should I write to the company to take back the PCN based on my reasons, or is it too late?

Thank you in advance. Kind Regards  

Gr1pr

Nature_At said:

Coupon-mad said:

I received the PCN from Universal Parking Enforcement.

Please show that PCN, both sides. We do NOT need to see the daft £170 threatograms (obviously ignore TNC)!

Just the PCN x 2 photos please.

Honestly, I would 100% have paid this if I had been informed I failed the appeal.  

Eh?!  No way!  Why on earth would you pay a scam private PCN all the time that the industry is rotten and overdue government regulation?

You'll learn by reading the forum a bit more; start with the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread with the £170 threatogram images to ignore. No link. See my signature.

  

Ive provided the information above in addition, I couldnt find aything about the fees if I lose in Court for whatever reason. Is there somewhere I can look up examples?

A typical loss in court for a single pcn is around £212 in total

Its currently an unregulated industry,  so dont beat yourself up about it , you are not dealing with John Lewis

Dont overthink this,  ignore them for now 

Come back to this thread if or when you receive a Letter of Claim giving you 30 days notice,  or if you receive a court claim pack from the CNBC in Northampton using MCOL,  within the next 6 years

Car1980

Are they not justified to prohibit parking in proximity of their gates? Im just playing devils adicate if this goes to court. 

Not under contract law. There has to be a number of stages present for a valid contract to be formed. Consideration is missing.

fisherjim

Nature_At said:

fisherjim said:

"Private Land: no parking allowed at any time".

Which is a forbidding sign, the private parking company is offering nothing for the fee they are asking.

In effect it's trespass which a third party scammer cannot make a charge for.

You wouldn't go into John Lewis and pay them £100 for nothing and walk out would you?

Thank you for your response. Can I ask you to expand on that please? 

Are they not justified to prohibit parking in proximity of their gates? Im just playing devils adicate if this goes to court. 

Also should I write to the company to take back the PCN based on my reasons, or is it too late?

Thank you in advance. Kind Regards  

Yes of course they can inform people they don't want parking in front of their gates, but that isn't what has happened here.

A private parking company has tried to charge you for parking there which is not exactly what they are contracted to do. 

In effect if you could leave your car there until midnight pay the fee retrospectively and do it again the next day for another fee.

I am sure that is not what the landowner requires but the PPC will rub their hands and salivate all the way to the bank every time it happens.

Coupon-mad

Thanks for showing the PCN. That is PoFA worded but this little firm is benign and we win cases in court. You are risking nothing.

Come back to this thread if or when you receive a Letter of Claim

Nature_At

Coupon-mad said:

Thanks for showing the PCN. That is PoFA worded but this little firm is benign and we win cases in court. You are risking nothing.

Come back to this thread if or when you receive a Letter of Claim

Thank you I definetly will do!