How "safe" are our inverters

LateStarter

Here's a headline from the Telegraph today: 
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/05/15/chinese-kill-switches-found-in-us-solar-farms/ - from the article "The components found in the US included cellular radios capable of switching off the equipment remotely, raising serious concerns about grid security,"

So, are there non-Chinese inverters in general use; and what is the possibility that a cyber-attack could essentially disable everyone's solar?

QrizB

The reports got a mention yesterday on the "solar in the news" thread:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4377643/solar-in-the-news#latest

So, are there non-Chinese inverters in general use; and what is the possibility that a cyber-attack could essentially disable everyone's solar?

I'm going to quote myself from that other thread:

QrizB said:

The Reuters article is here:

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/ghost-machine-rogue-communication-devices-found-chinese-inverters-2025-05-14/

It's all very vague - the sources are unattributed, the equipment involved is not specified. Hopefully more details will emerge in the next few days or weeks.

So, we don't know where the report came from or which inverters are affected.

Nick_Dr1

The chinese manufacturer of my inverter is able to update the firmware remotely -they've done it when requested. It would be very easy for them to 'brick' it from a distance. I suspect this is the same for most companies. so they all have a potential "kill switch" built in.

The manufacturers have a direct line in to the inverter. This is different from a third party cyber attack, who don't unless they hack the inverter company first.

If you are worried, then you need to isolate your residential inverter from the internet when its operating, but if widespread hacking of inverters becomes an issue, then it won't be the worst one we are facing!

Most internet connected system are killable. I read yesterday that Elon disabled a cybertruck being used by the russians in Ukraine, and it had to be towed from the battlefield. It was also recently revealed that all the UKs F35s effectively have a US controlled kill switch in them as they need access to updates to allow continual operation of their many systems.
Solar inverters are a long way down the list!

Screwdriva

LateStarter said:

So, are there non-Chinese inverters in general use; and what is the possibility that a cyber-attack could essentially disable everyone's solar?

Yes. Fronius/ SolarEdge/ Enphase/ SMA are excellent alternatives - I don't see those companies being drafted into geopolitical conflicts. Regretably, can't say the same about Chinese owned brands. What I can share is that they should be able to take down a significant % of the renewables infrastructure if they decide to. 

I'm relieved the West is waking up to the reality of dealing with China. 

QrizB

Screwdriva said:

LateStarter said:

So, are there non-Chinese inverters in general use; and what is the possibility that a cyber-attack could essentially disable everyone's solar?

Yes. Fronius/ SolarEdge/ Enphase/ SMA are excellent alternatives - I don't see those companies being drafted into geopolitical conflicts.

Do you remember the Super Micro (US company) motherboard backdoor story from 2018?

https://www.theregister.com/2021/02/12/supermicro_bloomberg_spying/

China, Israel, and the UK have excelled at these operations, he said, with France, Germany, and Russia also involved but, in his view, somewhat less capable in terms of hardware subversion.
Such attacks absolutely do happen, our source said, adding that there are government contracts seeking to study subverted hardware attacks so they can be replicated and improved upon. However, they're generally not directed at the public, he said. Rather they're focused on obtaining access to critical systems, on developing durable national security assets.

Screwdriva said:

I'm relieved the West is waking up to the reality of dealing with China. 

Or dealing with the US, France, Germany, the UK ...

michaels

Surely rather than killing the inverters this access could be used to kill the grid, surely very easy to set up an oscillation to break the grid frequency by simultaneously turning off and on - then again it could also be done with pretty much any smart device including the millions of smarts switches and plugs we now all have.

QrizB

michaels said:

Surely rather than killing the inverters this access could be used to kill the grid,

Yes, that's the general thrust of the various journalistic articles.

michaels said:

.. then again it could also be done with pretty much any smart device including the millions of smarts switches and plugs we now all have.

IOT botnets are already being used to carry out DDOS attacks. People need to start taking cyber security seriously.

Screwdriva

QrizB said:

Do you remember the Super Micro (US company) motherboard backdoor story from 2018?

https://www.theregister.com/2021/02/12/supermicro_bloomberg_spying/

Yes, I do and you're right to raise this. I have never claimed this is a new phenomenon or that other corporations have not indulged in this foolish maneuver but I do believe the Chinese State extends itself through its corporations in a way the world has yet to fully react to. Given the geopolitical volatility in SE Asia, the risk of a war like "event" similar to what was seen in S Asia last week remains uncomfortably high. 

On a related note, I suspect this subject is likely why Octopus has yet to add any Chinese brand inverters to its Intelligent Flux tariff. 

pete-20-11

GivEnergy firmware is from China isn't it? 

Their systems are on Octopus's IOF product. 

(I understand Giv are moving manufacturing to the UK, so maybe that'll change soon). 

Screwdriva

pete-20-11 said:

GivEnergy firmware is from China isn't it? 

Their systems are on Octopus's IOF product. 

(I understand Giv are moving manufacturing to the UK, so maybe that'll change soon). 

UK based with the majority of their hardware operation based in China (moving here). Not ideal but getting better. 

They were the first to give Octopus access and partial control of their firmware for IOF. 

michaels

Screwdriva said:

QrizB said:

Do you remember the Super Micro (US company) motherboard backdoor story from 2018?

https://www.theregister.com/2021/02/12/supermicro_bloomberg_spying/

Yes, I do and you're right to raise this. I have never claimed this is a new phenomenon or that other corporations have not indulged in this foolish maneuver but I do believe the Chinese State extends itself through its corporations in a way the world has yet to fully react to. Given the geopolitical volatility in SE Asia, the risk of a war like "event" similar to what was seen in S Asia last week remains uncomfortably high. 

On a related note, I suspect this subject is likely why Octopus has yet to add any Chinese brand inverters to its Intelligent Flux tariff. 

I had always assumed that Microsoft were closely linked to the NSA and that a similar relationship was behind Google's meteoric rise (and as an aside why China has tried to freeze out such products)