Need help with Cabot response

Wheeley991

Hi Everyone,

I am seeking advice over a defaulted debt that is being chased by Cabot Financial. I've had a read of the forum but still looking for some further advice before I proceed as this is all new to me.

They began chasing me at the start of the year by sending letters and calling me daily. After weeks I wrote to them with an online template (did not acknowledge the debt) requesting that they present the details of the loan and any payments made. This was not only to get them off my back but also I genuinely could not remember the date of the last payment.

After over 3 months they have wrote back stating that the agreement is no longer available due to the age of the debt, but they did manage to provide a statement of the account with an accurate breakdown of the payments made along with the outstanding amount that is still owed.

My questions are as follows:

1) Does the 6 year limitation apply from the date of the last payment (no acknowledgements were ever made beyond this point) OR the date of default? As the default date is roughly one year later.

2) In either case, I am currently within the 6 years - but is it unenforceable if they can't provide the original agreement? OR does the breakdown of previous payments suffice?

3) If the debt is unenforceable due to failure to supply the Agreement, should I still make a formal CCA request to Cabot?

If you need any further info just ask


Thank you!

fatbelly

The 'cause of action' for an ordinary credit debt is the expiry of the default notice but the period can be restarted by subsequent acknowledgement.

Lack of original agreement does not technically make a debt unenforceable as a court can decide that there probably was or wasn't one. Bit of a risk for them to start a claim on it though.

You can always do a cca request while there is no ccj on it so I think I'd just stay quiet for now and only respond to a letter before claim

Wheeley991

Lack of original agreement does not technically make a debt unenforceable as a court can decide that there probably was or wasn't one. Bit of a risk for them to start a claim on it though.

Thanks- can you elaborate on why you believe this? All sources I've come across said definitively that if no CCA can be produced then it can't be legally enforced until they can supply a copy

You can always do a cca request while there is no ccj on it so I think I'd just stay quiet for now and only respond to a letter before claim

true but there's nothing stopping them from harassing me daily which I really don't want. If it is actually unenforceable then maybe it's better to force them to admit it and maybe they'll give up

fatbelly

You've read what applies when a formal request is made under s 77-9 cca. The same sections state that a debt cannot be enforced until the request is complied with.

There was another section, i think 127(3), that was explicit about the need for an executed agreement, but this was removed for agreements made after 2007

My second paragraph is probably better explained by Stephensons in their final paragraph here

https://www.stephensons.co.uk/site/news_and_events/uptodatenews/credit_agreements_carey

They did some good work in my early days as an adviser, with Liam Waine, who I think moved on

Wheeley991

fatbelly said:

My second paragraph is probably better explained by Stephensons in their final paragraph here

Thanks, an interesting read

In that case I think it would be useful to find out if THEY believe that the debt is enforceable.

A CCA request would force them to produce at least a reconstructed agreement (my understanding from Stephensons) or admit that they can't - either would in turn would answer my question. But this approach does make me a bit nervous as some people believe a CCA request could count as acknowledgement even if I used the right language and continued to deny it. 

Or maybe I could write back simply asking them to confirm whether the debt is enforceable despite failure to produce the agreement, and on what basis?

I just don't want to do nothing because they'll just keep harassing

Could you share any thoughts on the best approach?

Rob5342

Getting them to admit it's unenforcable wouldn't necessarily stop them harassing you. PRA admitted my debt with them was unenforceable, but it didn't stop them phoning me every two days and emailing me every two weeks for 18 months,

tigergambit

Wheeley991 said:

fatbelly said:

My second paragraph is probably better explained by Stephensons in their final paragraph here

Thanks, an interesting read

In that case I think it would be useful to find out if THEY believe that the debt is enforceable.

A CCA request would force them to produce at least a reconstructed agreement (my understanding from Stephensons) or admit that they can't - either would in turn would answer my question. But this approach does make me a bit nervous as some people believe a CCA request could count as acknowledgement even if I used the right language and continued to deny it. 

Or maybe I could write back simply asking them to confirm whether the debt is enforceable despite failure to produce the agreement, and on what basis?

I just don't want to do nothing because they'll just keep harassing

Could you share any thoughts on the best approach?

I wouldn't be inclined to query their thinking just yet. Play it long and just ask that all future correspondence/contact be in writing and that they remove your contact number and email address from their records.

Wheeley991

tigergambit said:

I wouldn't be inclined to query their thinking just yet. Play it long and just ask that all future correspondence/contact be in writing and that they remove your contact number and email address from their records.

Do they have to comply with that?

Rob5342 said:

Getting them to admit it's unenforcable wouldn't necessarily stop them harassing you. PRA admitted my debt with them was unenforceable, but it didn't stop them phoning me every two days and emailing me every two weeks for 18 months,

That's irritating. Did they stop once it was legally time barred or just gave up?

And do you think a CCA request could count as acknowledging you're the debtor?

Rob5342

It's not time barred yet, they have calmed down a lot now and only phone occasionally. I don't know enough to comment on whether a CCA request acknowledges the debt or not. 

sourcrates

It`s a bit of a grey area that, a request under sec 77 can only be made by the debtor for their own account, so how it can`t be seen as acknowledgement I don`t know.

Its not something I would risk if my debt was close to becoming statute barred, put it that way.

The "General data protection regulations" or GDPR for short, see to it that you can specify how a company may contact you, there is a template letter on the ICO website, you can ask them to contact you in the manner you see fit, and they are obliged to comply or risk a fine.