Private "Fine" escalated to BW Legal

Ser_Apollo

Good afternoon, everyone,

 

I have read the Newbies and other threads since the beginning of our parking “fine”.

But I am at a loss here. This is the following situation:

In June my partner had a bike crash (not her fault), and in the meantime, after the crash, for the time her bike was looked at, she got a hire bike from the third-party insurance. Now we leave in an “Estate” where you need a parking sticker to park. It’s managed by “CPM UK Car Park Management”. The hire bike was parked out of the way but not in a “car parking spot” the reason being, that there a so few parking spots and taking a car spot away by a bike seemed unfair to all the others at the time. Anyway, the hire bike got issues a “fine”, that was in October 2024. We complained and appealed to the Landowner only, in hindsight we should’ve appealed with CPM as well. The Landowner refused and by the time we got a complete refusal / answer from the Landowner the window for appeal was closed anyway and it wasn’t possible to appeal anymore with CPM. So, we let the letters coming as there was no further way for us to appeal at that stage.

Last week my partner got a call from BW Legal. She did the mistake and confirmed her details over the phone, but that’s done now. We did receive a letter today from BW Legal and here it is where it is getting interesting for me and I can’t find anything on here (or I used the wrong words for the search):

BW Legal wrote in their letter (Letter of Claim), that the parking fine was issued for my Partners Car Number Plate “123456”. But the initial “fine” was for the hire bike “ABCDEF”. Additionally, they wrote the date of contravention was 16. January 2023 but that date is the date we moved in and not the date the “event” occurred, which was in October 2024. 

So basically, how I see it, BW Legal completely messed up and don’t really have a legal ground anymore? Or is that wishful thinking?

If there is a similar thread in here that I missed, please let me know and I happily read into it. It’s just that at this point it’s getting really confusing.

Thank you for your help.

Gr1pr

It may be 2 different parking charge notices,  one for the bike, the other for the car 

Ser_Apollo

Gr1pr said:

It may be 2 different parking charge notices,  one for the bike, the other for the car 

Can't be. We never got a CPM Notice for the car and we always have a parking permit displayed in the car. So I think it is a BW Legal mess up cause they likely pulled the details from the DVLA in the first place and CPM didn't communicate the Bike properly? I dunno. But the car is all good and there was no CPM letter regarding the car. 

Gr1pr

Not receiving paperwork is no defence if a pcn was issued,  especially if you moved and it went to an old address   !

The onus is on the keeper to update the DVLA promptly when moving, and the only way a private parking company can obtain keeper details for each vehicle is via the DVLA database 

So your "it cant be" doesn't hold up IMHO

Ser_Apollo

Gr1pr said:

Not receiving paperwork is no defence if a pcn was issued,  especially if you moved and it went to an old address   !

The onus is on the keeper to update the DVLA promptly when moving, and the only way a private parking company can obtain keeper details for each vehicle is via the DVLA database 

So your "it cant be" doesn't hold up IMHO

Okay, well we didn't move. 

We have moved to this place on 16th of January 2023. The Car was registered here right away with a permit. The incident in question with a Bike happened in October 2024. 

So BW Legal sent a letter with the "PCN Reference" for the Bike in question but are stating that the incident occurred on 16th January 2023 and with a car instead of the bike. Does that make more sense now? Sorry if it wasn't clear before. 

Gr1pr

NO, Still unclear to me ( it's still possible for UK CPM to have issued an unreceived pcn for the car when you moved in , which went to a previous address,  it's a very common thing that happens,  very common indeed  )

So are you saying that there was only a single pcn issued on a certain date in October 2024 UK CPM issued to the VRM AB12CDE on a motorcycle,  that is currently outstanding   ?

I am definitely confused so far 

But 

B W Legal have sent either a debt collector letter   ( or is it a Letter of Claim giving you 30 days notice   ?  ) for a car with VRM details that are NOT  the VRM details of AB123DE , for a ghost pcn supposddly issued in January 2023   ?

Clearly the data that passed from UK cpm to B W Legal is corrupt,  but that works in your favour,  the more mistakes the better


Your explanations are confusing 

The main thing here is , what is the BW Legal letter   ? Is it a debt collector letter that can be ignored   ?  Or a Letter of Claim giving the keeper 30 days notice which needs a response   ?

The only thing that needs to be dealt with is a Letter of Claim and the response template for an LoC is in the newbies sticky thread in announcements,  second post 

Ser_Apollo

Gr1pr said:

NO, Still unclear to me ( it's still possible for UK CPM to have issued an unreceived pcn for the car when you moved in , which went to a previous address,  it's a very common thing that happens,  very common indeed  )

So are you saying that there was only a single pcn issued on a certain date in October 2024 UK CPM issued to the VRM AB12CDE on a motorcycle,  that is currently outstanding   ?

I am definitely confused so far 

But 

B W Legal have sent either a debt collector letter   ( or is it a Letter of Claim giving you 30 days notice   ?  ) for a car with VRM details that are NOT  the VRM details of AB123DE , for a ghost pcn supposddly issued in January 2023   ?

Clearly the data that passed from UK cpm to B W Legal is corrupt,  but that works in your favour,  the more mistakes the better


Your explanations are confusing 

The main thing here is , what is the BW Legal letter   ? Is it a debt collector letter that can be ignored   ?  Or a Letter of Claim giving the keeper 30 days notice which needs a response   ?

The only thing that needs to be dealt with is a Letter of Claim and the response template for an LoC is in the newbies sticky thread in announcements,  second post 

Hi thank you, I am trying to be more clear: 

So we have a car. Car Number Plate is 1234567, Car is registered to current address since the moving in date 16th January 2023. 

Partner had a hire bike, due to a bike crash in 2024. That bike received a "fine" in October 2024 from CPM with PCN Reference XYZ and Number Plate ABCDEFG

We contacted the Landowner, they denied to cancel the fine. 

We didn't react to any further CPM letters.

Last CPM letter threatened with BW Legal. 

BW Legal Letter of Claim (LoC) arrived now in mail with PCN Reference XYZ BUT stating it's the Car 1234567 and with the date in question 16th January 2023. (While the correct version would obviously be PCN Reference XYZ for Bike ABCDEFG on 10th October 2024).

So BW Legal LoC states wrong vehicle and wrong date but with same PCN Reference as CPM did before for the bike. 

If I understood you correctly, I only have to reply to the LoC for now as per the newbies threads, correct? Thank you so much for your help. 

Gr1pr

Yes correct , respond to the LoC,  let them make the mistakes,  better for the Defendant 

In that case it's a mystery how either the parking company or B W Legal obtained the private data of the VRM of the car that had a permit,  or why they are aware of the moving in date for this supposedly ghost pcn  ( a pcn that was actually issued to a hire motorcycle that was not in the name of the driver but in the name of the hire company,  who presumably told UK CPM the details of the hirer  ) , yet continue to use the same pcn reference 

Ser_Apollo

Gr1pr said:

Yes correct , respond to the LoC,  let them make the mistakes,  better for the Defendant 

In that case it's a mystery how either the parking company or B W Legal obtained the private data of the VRM of the car that had a permit,  or why they are aware of the moving in date for this supposedly ghost pcn  ( a pcn that was actually issued to a hire motorcycle that was not in the name of the driver but in the name of the hire company,  who presumably told UK CPM the details of the hirer  ) , yet continue to use the same pcn reference 

Amazing. Thank you so much.

Gr1pr

B W Legal should not be in possession of your car details,  nor your moving in date   ( not unless a pcn was issued to the vehicle on or just after the moving in date,  presumably with a different pcn reference)

But deal with whats in front of you, saving their errors for later on 

Personally,  I doubt that B W Legal have messed up,  more likely to be their client UK CPM ( cr_p in  =  cr_p out  )

Coupon-mad

They haven't messed up.

This one is about your car. And there could be even more.

You definitely got a PCN (sent to your old address in 2023) re the car on the day you were unloading & moving in. You may even have more from that first week or two because your car will have been registered - at that time - to your old address. The DVLA cannot have changed it on day one.

I can't explain the same PCN ref for both. Are you sure? Still got the bike PCN?