Having to go to financial ombudsman now that I've been called a liar. What to submit?

B0bbyEwing

Having never had to do this before, what do I send to the F.O. regarding this?

I imagine I'll send them a letter outlining what's happened and why I am now contacting them.
Do I have to send on copies of my letter of complaint to Amex?
What about Amex's original letters (before my complaint) witholding money I believe I'm entitled to?
And the fact that I don't actually have a 'final outcome' letter?
Or do the FO just request the above from Amex's end and deal with it that way?

Top & bottom being, someone somewhere gained access to my Amex account and was able to subscribe to something online. I noticed this at the time that the 2nd payment went out. A live chat with Amex and I discovered attempts had been made & auto-declined but obviously 2 payments sneaked through. I then cancelled this & went through the whole new card thing.
I contacted the online merchant who told me XYZ details were tied to the account & was that me ............ nope it wasn't.
Amex's 'investigation' determined that I had made the transactions myself and they upheld their decision. 
I submitted my complaint mid-Feb. Today I contacted them via their live chat to ask what's going on as I believe I'm now in a time frame to contact the FO & they said that they'd decided to uphold their original decision once more.

Where my final outcome letter is ... who knows.

So I had to get the complaint reference via live chat in case I need to provide that or whether FO just get it from Amex themselves.

eskbanker

There's no need for a final response if you're going to FOS at least eight weeks after complaining to the institution, so you can submit the complaint itself plus all relevant documentation that you do have pertaining to it (better not to have to rely on the institution's version of events) and if they need any more then they can ask for it, it's not a once-only process.

DullGreyGuy

B0bbyEwing said:

Having never had to do this before, what do I send to the F.O. regarding this?

I imagine I'll send them a letter outlining what's happened and why I am now contacting them.
Do I have to send on copies of my letter of complaint to Amex?
What about Amex's original letters (before my complaint) witholding money I believe I'm entitled to?
And the fact that I don't actually have a 'final outcome' letter?
Or do the FO just request the above from Amex's end and deal with it that way?

Top & bottom being, someone somewhere gained access to my Amex account and was able to subscribe to something online. I noticed this at the time that the 2nd payment went out. A live chat with Amex and I discovered attempts had been made & auto-declined but obviously 2 payments sneaked through. I then cancelled this & went through the whole new card thing.
I contacted the online merchant who told me XYZ details were tied to the account & was that me ............ nope it wasn't.
Amex's 'investigation' determined that I had made the transactions myself and they upheld their decision. 
I submitted my complaint mid-Feb. Today I contacted them via their live chat to ask what's going on as I believe I'm now in a time frame to contact the FO & they said that they'd decided to uphold their original decision once more.

Where my final outcome letter is ... who knows.

So I had to get the complaint reference via live chat in case I need to provide that or whether FO just get it from Amex themselves.

You will write out what your complaint is and what outcome you want. You should send to them any evidence you are relying upon or that supports your complaint. You will be asked to supply the Final Response Letter.

Someone doesnt need access to your account to make a payment so why do you think they got access? If you speculate about things rather than state facts you are more likely not to get the outcome you want. AmEx will have much more records on who's attempted access to your account than who's been trying to make a payment using your card details. 

If you make a complaint, get a final response and then continue to chat/argue with the financial institute you dont get a second final response, the first one stands and the 6 month time limit continues to run down. 

Ultimately if there is anything you cannot supply the FOS will be asking AmEx for their version of events, supporting materials, copy of the final response etc. 

You are entitled to go to the FOS either after receiving the final response or 8 weeks from the date of complaint, whichever is sooner. 

MattMattMattUK

B0bbyEwing said:

Amex's 'investigation' determined that I had made the transactions myself and they upheld their decision. 

Is there any chance that this could have been done by someone you live with or by someone who has access to your devices? The most likely reason that they have come to this conclusion is because the transactions were from an IP and/or location you regularly use, and/or the transaction was verified by an SMS/email verification code sent to your phone or email.

B0bbyEwing

DullGreyGuy said:

B0bbyEwing said:

Having never had to do this before, what do I send to the F.O. regarding this?

I imagine I'll send them a letter outlining what's happened and why I am now contacting them.
Do I have to send on copies of my letter of complaint to Amex?
What about Amex's original letters (before my complaint) witholding money I believe I'm entitled to?
And the fact that I don't actually have a 'final outcome' letter?
Or do the FO just request the above from Amex's end and deal with it that way?

Top & bottom being, someone somewhere gained access to my Amex account and was able to subscribe to something online. I noticed this at the time that the 2nd payment went out. A live chat with Amex and I discovered attempts had been made & auto-declined but obviously 2 payments sneaked through. I then cancelled this & went through the whole new card thing.
I contacted the online merchant who told me XYZ details were tied to the account & was that me ............ nope it wasn't.
Amex's 'investigation' determined that I had made the transactions myself and they upheld their decision. 
I submitted my complaint mid-Feb. Today I contacted them via their live chat to ask what's going on as I believe I'm now in a time frame to contact the FO & they said that they'd decided to uphold their original decision once more.

Where my final outcome letter is ... who knows.

So I had to get the complaint reference via live chat in case I need to provide that or whether FO just get it from Amex themselves.

You will write out what your complaint is and what outcome you want. You should send to them any evidence you are relying upon or that supports your complaint. You will be asked to supply the Final Response Letter.

Someone doesnt need access to your account to make a payment so why do you think they got access? If you speculate about things rather than state facts you are more likely not to get the outcome you want. AmEx will have much more records on who's attempted access to your account than who's been trying to make a payment using your card details. 

If you make a complaint, get a final response and then continue to chat/argue with the financial institute you dont get a second final response, the first one stands and the 6 month time limit continues to run down. 

Ultimately if there is anything you cannot supply the FOS will be asking AmEx for their version of events, supporting materials, copy of the final response etc. 

You are entitled to go to the FOS either after receiving the final response or 8 weeks from the date of complaint, whichever is sooner. 

Eh?

You've absolutely 100% lost me there I'm afraid. Care to explain please?

Why do I think someone got access?
Well because I logged in to my account one day & noticed a payment to something 1) I hadn't made and 2) I'd never heard of before. I Googled this company & still was none the wiser. I'd absolutely never dealt with this company before in my life on account of never having heard of them and plus I'm very choosy over what I subscribe to as I'm anti-subscription for the most part with only a few exceptions & this wasn't one of them.

Add to that that when I contacted Amex I was told a number of attempts had been made on my account to pay for things & these had been auto-rejected as fraudulent activity but somehow this subscription got through.

Add to that I contacted the company & was able to get details of the partial email address that was tied to the account that had used my details to subscribe - I didn't recognise the email address at all, nor the @ extension (as in it wasn't @gmail, @hotmail, @outlook etc, it was some @gobbledeygookemailidneverheardofbefore). 

MattMattMattUK said:

B0bbyEwing said:

Amex's 'investigation' determined that I had made the transactions myself and they upheld their decision. 

Is there any chance that this could have been done by someone you live with or by someone who has access to your devices? The most likely reason that they have come to this conclusion is because the transactions were from an IP and/or location you regularly use, and/or the transaction was verified by an SMS/email verification code sent to your phone or email.

Absolutely not.

Though I've been here before previously & it seems people actually refuse to accept that answer so I'll respond with the only way that it could've happened - 
they (while asleep (so have no recollection)) took MY Amex details & subscribed to this website with whatever that email address is. They likely switched location to America or something too.
OR they did it & they're lying to me.

But in actual fact, no there's absolutely zero chance that it's anyone with physical access to my Amex card or any of my devices.

beckstar1975

That means they had your card details (possibly from cloned card) not access to your account. They are two different things.

B0bbyEwing

beckstar1975 said:

That means they had your card details (possibly from cloned card) not access to your account. They are two different things.

But if they have my card details and they're posting charges to my account then they, one way or another, have access to my account the way I see it. They may or may not be able to log in but they're posting charges to it so they're accessing it.

Though if that's how others will phrase it then thanks for pointing it out. I'll be careful to word it as you say then.


Oh and as the final letter got mentioned again - 

I was waiting on it. And waiting, and more waiting, after my letter was dated mid-Feb. I got a letter saying they'd received my complaint but I was waiting on their (Amex) decision. 

Near the end of April & I felt I'd given them long enough so contacted them yesterday via Live Chat to see if the Live Chat agent could access the file & tell me what was going on. They could - and told me Amex had stood by their decision. 

Nice of them to send this notice out in writing rather than me have to go chasing for the info.

eskbanker

B0bbyEwing said:

beckstar1975 said:

That means they had your card details (possibly from cloned card) not access to your account. They are two different things.

But if they have my card details and they're posting charges to my account then they, one way or another, have access to my account the way I see it. They may or may not be able to log in but they're posting charges to it so they're accessing it.

Though if that's how others will phrase it then thanks for pointing it out. I'll be careful to word it as you say then.

Yes, the key phrase is 'unauthorised transaction' rather than anything to do with 'accessing an account', which could be perceived as suggesting compromised login credentials, but as above the main thing is to stick to the facts, i.e. simply that there was a transaction that you're confident you didn't make, rather than speculating about how it might have happened.  However, you'll presumably have made it clear to Amex exactly what the basis of your complaint is, so all you're doing is escalating that same complaint to FOS, so there's no particular need to rewrite anything....

born_again

B0bbyEwing said:

Though I've been here before previously & it seems people actually refuse to accept that answer so I'll respond with the only way that it could've happened - 
they (while asleep (so have no recollection)) took MY Amex details & subscribed to this website with whatever that email address is. They likely switched location to America or something too.
OR they did it & they're lying to me.

But in actual fact, no there's absolutely zero chance that it's anyone with physical access to my Amex card or any of my devices.

So all they had is your card details.

Who is the retailer?

Could it be a follow subscription from something you have purchased? 
Fact time is while you are asleep, does not really make any difference, as could just be the timing of system processing, rather than actual time it was made.

B0bbyEwing

born_again said:

Who is the retailer?

Could it be a follow subscription from something you have purchased? 
Fact time is while you are asleep, does not really make any difference, as could just be the timing of system processing, rather than actual time it was made.

Just curious why this is important?
I've nothing 'to hide' but I just found it unusual to ask because I don't understand its relevance. As though if I say company 1 then the whole thing should be treated differently vs if I say company 2?

But no, it couldn't be. As I said - I'd never heard of this company before ever in my life and like I said I'm also fairly anti-subscription. I had Google One appear on my Amex card as a subscription once or twice but that's about it.

And also, when I say nobody accessed my card, my account, my details or any of that then that's exactly what I mean (if we're starting to push the "did a family member...." narrative). If I come across as short with that one then it's because I've previously dealt with members (on here) who just wouldn't listen when I said that (not saying you're one of them, I'm not delving back through my posts to see) & instead kept insisting that a family member must have taken my card. Funny enough, that was also with Amex IIRC which was prior to this incident & at that time Amex ruled in my favour - that my account/card (whichever one may prefer to use) was fraudulently used. They issued me a new card but obviously that didn't work out too well.

beckstar1975

Where have you used both cards? DH has had his card details cloned twice, once from a cash machine at a tube station and once at our local petrol station (he was one of several -it's a big brand one too). 

Just to give you an example off places where this can occur.