Moving from Royal London to another platform - how to avoid being out of the market for too long

DT2001

B-in-law wants to move RL SIPP to passive tracker. He is looking at Vanguard Global, HSBC FTSE All World index or SPDR MSCI ACWI IMI ETF. If he moves directly to Vanguard platform I think the transfer is in cash so potentially out of the market for 30 working days according to website. Does anyone have experience of moving out of RL.

I wondered if he could move funds within RL to one of their external options  (say Baillie Gifford U.K. and world wide equity) and move in specie to say HL (if opting for an ETF as capped fees) or if this was too complex or costly. Any alternatives he should look at?

dunstonh

B-in-law wants to move RL SIPP to passive tracker.

That is like saying your BIL wants to sell his car to buy petrol.

Putting aside that RL's pension is likely to be a PPP (or GPPP) rather than a SIPP.   Whilst the RL PPP does have a bolt on for SIPP functionality, it is rarely used.  I have never come across anyone that has used it.

 He is looking at Vanguard Global, HSBC FTSE All World index or SPDR MSCI ACWI IMI ETF.

So, he hasn't made his mind up yet on the benchmark to track. (i.e. All Cap, All World or all country world index).

. If he moves directly to Vanguard platform I think the transfer is in cash so potentially out of the market for 30 working days according to website. Does anyone have experience of moving out of RL.

Plenty of experience.  It won't take 30 days.  More like a week if the receiving scheme is efficient.   2 weeks if they are not.   If its a non-mainstream platform, that is not on RL's green list and ETFs are going to be used, then you are talking months potentially.

I wondered if he could move funds within RL to one of their external options  (say Baillie Gifford U.K. and world wide equity) and move in specie to say HL (if opting for an ETF as capped fees) or if this was too complex or costly. Any alternatives he should look at?

No.  You cannot inspecie transfer insured funds.

Albermarle

Even if the whole process takes two weeks, the funds will not be in cash the whole time, maybe only a few days at most .

DT2001

dunstonh said:

B-in-law wants to move RL SIPP to passive tracker.

That is like saying your BIL wants to sell his car to buy petrol.

Putting aside that RL's pension is likely to be a PPP (or GPPP) rather than a SIPP.   Whilst the RL PPP does have a bolt on for SIPP functionality, it is rarely used.  I have never come across anyone that has used it.

 He is looking at Vanguard Global, HSBC FTSE All World index or SPDR MSCI ACWI IMI ETF.

So, he hasn't made his mind up yet on the benchmark to track. (i.e. All Cap, All World or all country world index).

. If he moves directly to Vanguard platform I think the transfer is in cash so potentially out of the market for 30 working days according to website. Does anyone have experience of moving out of RL.

Plenty of experience.  It won't take 30 days.  More like a week if the receiving scheme is efficient.   2 weeks if they are not.   If its a non-mainstream platform, that is not on RL's green list and ETFs are going to be used, then you are talking months potentially.

I wondered if he could move funds within RL to one of their external options  (say Baillie Gifford U.K. and world wide equity) and move in specie to say HL (if opting for an ETF as capped fees) or if this was too complex or costly. Any alternatives he should look at?

No.  You cannot inspecie transfer insured funds.

Sorry, it’s an individual PP.

He says he looked at ETF v fund as the two platforms he initially identified capped charges for one but not the other. He said he thought there was little difference over the long term between global FTSE and MSCI indices. I haven’t checked his analysis.

Can you expand on your analogy - selling a car to buy petrol please.

BIL is at research stage having just been advised his ongoing fees will double in a months time 

dunstonh

Can you expand on your analogy - selling a car to buy petrol please.

You said he wants to move RL SIPP to passive tracker. 

The RL pension is a container for investments. A SIPP is a container for investments.  So, think of those as a car.

The tracker is something you put in a pension.    Think of that is the petrol.

You don't move from a pension to a tracker as that would be like selling a car to buy petrol.

He says he looked at ETF v fund as the two platforms he initially identified capped charges for one but not the other. He said he thought there was little difference over the long term between global FTSE and MSCI indices. I haven’t checked his analysis.

OEICs or UT funds held in the SIPP are UK regulated funds.   They are classed as lower risk than their equivalent ETF.   ETFS are domiciled in Luxembourg or Ireland and are classed as offshore investments.     Pension transfers that involve offshore investments get extra checks.    Most of the mainstream providers have green lists where they will handle transfers without hassle.  However, if he goes non-mainstream (i.e. small player) then its unlikely to be on the green list and the anti-scam checks will be carried out which can add weeks or months.   He wouldn't get that with OEICs or UTs.