Negotiating down a 6 month probationary period?

Kai_63

I'm reviewing a contract for a new job. I'll be in a reasonably senior role in a big company (but not leading the overall team) and they've added a 6 month probationary period.

Has anyone negotiated this down to 3 months and/or have any advice?

EnPointe

what is the benefit to the business  of   offering you a customised probationary period ?  

Probationary periods mean very little  other than reduced  notice periods both way, they have no impact on  Employment protections /rights  ( as those are either day 1 or  after 2 years currently until  the  Employment Rights bill  currently being discussed  passes through parliament )  

and the historical stuff   re pensions etc  no longer appplies due to auto enrolment  rules 

TELLIT01

Any benefits of a reduced probation period would all be one way i.e. in favour of the new employee.  Why would any employer agree to that?

Undervalued

I think the comments made in reply to your other thread really apply to this too.

Remember, unless you are able to negotiate some very special and unusual protection, you are effectively on probation for two years in any new job as you have little security.

So, even if you got this changed it wouldn't give you any extra job security. If there are benefits attached to "passing" probation (e.g extra salary, holiday or other benefits) then these would kick in sooner but that it all.

Beyond this, "probation" has little meaning in UK employment law.

Kai_63

Thank you. I guess that 3 months felt more like meeting midway but seems as though it's not really worth trying to negotiate it down. 

prowla

EnPointe said:

what is the benefit to the business  of   offering you a customised probationary period ?  

Probationary periods mean very little  other than reduced  notice periods both way, they have no impact on  Employment protections /rights  ( as those are either day 1 or  after 2 years currently until  the  Employment Rights bill  currently being discussed  passes through parliament )  

and the historical stuff   re pensions etc  no longer appplies due to auto enrolment  rules 

Actually, they do often have an impact on some rights, such as joining employee benefit schemes.

Exodi

Oh wow when I first read this thread I was confused by the responses as my brain just automatically read it as "Negotiating down a 6 month probationary notice period".

Now I've just twigged, I'd say do not even consider it. As an employer, a prospective candidate requesting this would be a red flag. The optics are awful, what reasoning would you give for this?

We also tie several benefits to probation (such as private health insurance and company life policy) which as you mention it's a reasonably senior role are likely to apply, which I guess means that these should be advanced early to you also.

EnPointe

prowla said:

EnPointe said:

what is the benefit to the business  of   offering you a customised probationary period ?  

Probationary periods mean very little  other than reduced  notice periods both way, they have no impact on  Employment protections /rights  ( as those are either day 1 or  after 2 years currently until  the  Employment Rights bill  currently being discussed  passes through parliament )  

and the historical stuff   re pensions etc  no longer appplies due to auto enrolment  rules 

Actually, they do often have an impact on some rights, such as joining employee benefit schemes.

Act and Section please  if you are suggesting there is a legal basis  for this, rather than these being  discretionary and none contractual benefits ? 

It's a decision that the Employer / Group makes 

there's a well know mulitnational, whose Uk operations are a mxture of company owned sites and franchised sites, the organisation has a health insurance scheme in the UK and Europe  , which is not open to those with less than 3 ( three) years service , the nature of the front line workforce is such that  many people don't make 3 years service, however the  First line Managers and Branch Assistant / General managers  often have many  years service 

Marcon

Kai_63 said:

I'm reviewing a contract for a new job. I'll be in a reasonably senior role in a big company (but not leading the overall team) and they've added a 6 month probationary period.

Has anyone negotiated this down to 3 months and/or have any advice?

What's the advantage to the employer (none) or to you (?is there one - for example, do you only become entitled to certain benefits after 'successful completion of probationary period')?

Please get yourself some professional advice, as already suggested on one of your other threads on this topic. At least that way you'll know for sure if this opportunity is worth pursuing (or steering clear of!), and be certain the contract has no hidden bear traps to come back and haunt you at a later date.

Knowing when you need to take professional advice is a key skill for senior employees...

Grumpy_chap

Kai_63 said:

I'm reviewing a contract for a new job. I'll be in a reasonably senior role in a big company (but not leading the overall team) and they've added a 6 month probationary period.

Has anyone negotiated this down to 3 months and/or have any advice?

Is this for real?
You already have another thread where, presumably the same potential employer, you are concerned about the "non-compete" clause:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6601231/best-places-for-resources-on-job-contracts/p1
It would probably be better to have all your queries on the same job kept in one thread.

Why?  Why do you want to want to negotiate down the probationary period?
What difference will it make?
Probation period or not, essentially in the first two years the employee has very few rights and can be dismissed on little more than a whim.
Again, this is going to be a standard clause and really not likely to be negotiable.

It is clear that your trust of this potential employer is very low, so you really would be far better walking away and getting another job at another organisation where the relationship has a better chance of success.

Or, go in with your long list of changes you want to the contract, and have the job offer withdrawn.
Either now, or proceed with your current mindset, start employment, and find that you are determined as a difficult or awkward employee and find that the employer exercises their opportunity to move you on.

Are the successive searches for "issues" with the contract really the result of your sub-conscious telling you that this is not the correct move for you at this time?

I really struggle to see how this can end well.

Out of interest, what job is this really?  In this thread it is "reasonably senior, but not team leader".  In the other thread it is "number 3 from the top" in a large organisation, so CxO, GM type level.

prowla

EnPointe said:

prowla said:

EnPointe said:

what is the benefit to the business  of   offering you a customised probationary period ?  

Probationary periods mean very little  other than reduced  notice periods both way, they have no impact on  Employment protections /rights  ( as those are either day 1 or  after 2 years currently until  the  Employment Rights bill  currently being discussed  passes through parliament )  

and the historical stuff   re pensions etc  no longer appplies due to auto enrolment  rules 

Actually, they do often have an impact on some rights, such as joining employee benefit schemes.

Act and Section please  if you are suggesting there is a legal basis  for this, rather than these being  discretionary and none contractual benefits ? 

It's a decision that the Employer / Group makes 

there's a well know mulitnational, whose Uk operations are a mxture of company owned sites and franchised sites, the organisation has a health insurance scheme in the UK and Europe  , which is not open to those with less than 3 ( three) years service , the nature of the front line workforce is such that  many people don't make 3 years service, however the  First line Managers and Branch Assistant / General managers  often have many  years service 

I don't understand "Act and Section" - are you asking for a legal basis?

If so, that's not what I was referring to.

It's common for companies to have a benefits package which you have a right to join on completion of probation.

it could be a healthcare plan, perks, share options, or whatever.

Therefore shortening the probation would give sooner access to those.